I missed you too.

I was learning with a tall, spotted member of our chevra, and thought I would share something we learned.

We know that it is important to make gedarim so that we don't fall. It is not simply a technicality (the gedarim make it more difficult to fall). Having gedarim in place actually makes the desire to fall less.

If my wife is in the room, and I am using the computer, I have no desire to look at inapropriate sites (usually). If she leaves town, my desire skyrockets (usually).

Desire rises in proportion to opportunity. Take the opportunities away (or make it harder at least) and the desires will be diminished (no they won't disappear, but they will be less).

I thought it was a nice point about how gedarim are helpful.

Interestingly put.

Last night, my gatekeeper took the filter off my phone so I could open an innocuous link. After a couple of minutes, I felt a slight tinge, the likes of which I haven't felt in months. The opportunity brought me to think, albeit for a few seconds, about looking at shmutz. B"H, it wasn't a big deal and I didn't do anything, but I experienced first-hand exactly what you just wrote.

Thanks for sharing.

As much as I dislike the word cuz it engendrs the silly idea that we are 'victims', I still would like to apply the word: "Trigger," here.

It may be helpful to recognize that being alone with your computer and hidden from your wife/people you are afraid of, was always the way you got the sweet porn we love. So naturally, being alone with your computer and hidden from wife or anyone else you are afraid of, triggers a conditioned response.

Not only a choice, not only a mental process - but simply a conditioned response.

Triggers are surely not the sole reason we end up lusting or acting out our lust...but they exist, and they need to be respected.

If you think that over, does it mean something to you?

Thanks for letting me share that.

thank you Gibbor for that clarification! the tall spotted guy you learned with did not understand that so well last night and now it is clearer

thank you Dov for that insight too.

gibbor120 wrote:


I would like to mention a third point how gedarim are helpful: When we do our part in avoiding such problems, we merit siyata dishmaya and Hashem will do the rest for us. (See Mesilas Yeshorim end of chapter 2.)

Hatzlacha

MT

dov, you are making a different point, but a good one nonetheless.

My point applies even when there is no "pre-existing condition". Like a kid who wasn't hungry for cookies, when his mom leaves the room and he sees them, might become overwhelmed with the urge to remove one from the cookie jar, even though he has no rap sheet yet . The opportunity alone whets his appetite.

But conditioning definitely plays a big role in lust. When my wife would leave the house to go to the store, my heart would start pounding so hard, I was DOA. I didn't stand a chance. It was probably a combination of all those factors.

B"H, this summer, I was home alone for several days, and I really didn't have a hard time. I made sure to call people and get together with people.

In the past, I would have used the time to do something alone. Now, I realize, that I MUST connect with people to have a shot at staying sober.

Hope someone enjoys my ramble.

I enjoyed your ramble, because I could relate very much.

My wife just has to mention that she wants to go out and my mind starts plotting. For the most part since joining GYE, I have been able to tell those thoughts that I don't do that anymore, and that would be that. But I definitely know the feeling.

skeptical wrote:


Funny how I could have written that same paragraph (both the before and the after). I guess people here have much in common.

skeptical wrote:


I relate. It was years and years, that being left alone at home made me nuts. I walked out and talked with recovery friends many times walking w/ them around my block just to calm me down and get into life rather than the fantasy stuff. Driving was also a problem, being a reformed cruiser. If i'd get lost or be driving with unaccountable time, I'd be going crazy not to look for dirty places to visit. It was torture.

Because of Hashem's kindness and help, that situation has disappeared for me most of the time. Now, things are quite different: My challenge is when my wife says she wants to stay home with me and we have a nice evening. Pleasing her and having a nice time together was always a trigger for lusting after sex with her - and it ruined the relationship. So the time most of my surrender of lust happens is with her and it leads to so much more love and good times together. Lust really kills love...and when it does not kill it, it just maims it and the love/relationship just drags along for years and years.

And when I am busy with recovery and letting lust go, it makes the times we are sexual more of a choice and a pleasure instead of the old neediness or begging by either party.

And just for the record, I don't think I ever 'deserved' that or could have 'merited' that. But we have been told by great tzaddikim that Hashem only comes in where people let Him in. And I let Him in only because I suffered enough and finally became willing to let go of my shame and talk openly and honestly to real people about the truth of what I had done, was doing, and felt like doing. And that was enough. So far.

Gibbor, just wanted to tell you how excited I am that you are back and kicking!!!

WOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks. I somehow missed this post until just now.

Quoting Self. Old but good post.

gibbor120 wrote:

Another gemara:

Sanhedrin 31b

Post 3,000!!!