TehillimZugger wrote:


who would the Rav approach? every member of his congregation?
theoretically he could tell everyone "I'm telling this to every single member of the shul" so ifits not at all relevant just ignore it" but that will take away from the "personal" feeling of it, and make the "double lifers" less encouraged to open up.
also there would be those who it would seem quite strange for the Rav to approach, for example if there was a middle aged talmid chochochom who was a posek and a magid shiur of the shul, it might just not be feasible for the rav to spek to him in this way. and we all know "it could be anyone".

TehillimZugger wrote:


IMHO I think you should keep such "personal" messages in the "private message" section, not in the public response area. [especially ones which conern "[i]chanies[/i]"].

TehillimZugger wrote:

Please pardon my utter ignorance - would you be kind enough to explain to me what it means when a poster puts the "warning: spoiler" notice in his message?

thanks cordnoy great post, but I agree with shivisi most addicts will never open up and will remain in denial.

Not at first, but somewhere down the line...they might.

Take a look at the people on this site.

many swore that they never would go To SA or open up to a real person.

And now.....there are plenty.

Thanks again

cordnoy wrote:


As i said 99.999999 percent of those who have "opened up" have done so only after realizing ON THEIR OWN that they could not possibly continue going on with life the way they have been living until that point, and NOT by the initiation of someone else, as has been suggested in cordnoys post.
I'm not saying it CAN"T happen but the chances are very improbable.

a benefit i think could came out of all this is, when the person finishes a spree and feels completely hopeless and doomed and then remembers "oh yeah the rabbi gave a speech about this and said that there is help out there" maybe out of the desperation that a spree provides they will go to the rabbi.
i know this wont work for all people and i know not all rabbis will deliver things properly but getting awareness out there so people at least have in the back of their mind that there is an address to go to might prove beneficial

Thanks cordnoy for this, great stuff coming out.

My feelings were very similar to gibbor's, plus.

1) I personally was first approached by my father, I had left a video open...
he was very warm and truly understanding, telling me (as cordnoy wrote) that it would ruin me. He made a point of making it much more practical by saying that it would ruin my marriage.

There was one (or two) main thing(s) that he didn't tell me and that was that I'm not the only one, that I am actually normal, and that I can talk to other people about it. Not only other people, because I would have assumed that he meant kids off the D, had he told me that there were other people, people like me, people that were learning, people that were davening, chassidish, etc. I think I could've saved a lot of time.

I wouldn't have wanted to talk to my father, not if he doesn't tell me that he struggles with it, but give me another struggler I would have opened up much quicker.

Another thing, in the same venue, is that I was talking to a certain Rav about what he called "an addiction that is much much worse than alcohol" and I know that he dealt with certain cases correctly. But while talking to him I saw how he really felt about those people, how he looked down at them, and I felt my stomach clenching, and my heart beating, etc.

To summarize, I wouldn't take up any rav's offer to open up to him, because I know how rabanim look at us, but if he would give an address of where to go to get help, of where those people that are just like me, are, (namely GYE) then I would've probably looked, if only for curiosity sake.

2) The stigma. Doesn't everyone have a yetzer hara that is bothering them to no end? By one person it may be gaavah, another dishonesty, another might be food, etc. etc. If that would be mentioned in the drashos, that everyone has a fight, and the guy that struggles with lust is the exact same as the guy who struggles with gaavah, that should put a new light onto it.

3)Point is that the person struggling needs to get the help, as gibbor wrote. BUT, if the help was much more readily available then it would be much easier to, and many more people would, get help.

Thanks again!!

shivisi wrote:


I am sorry but again this is just another made-up statistic. And besides, the people on gye might have realized on their own, but it was only after proddin', cajolin', inspirin', convincin' words of others.

This I know first hand from myself and from those who have opened up to me and from those who have told me that they joined SA or other such groups because of others on this site.

So let's just ask all shuls to have a GYE night. We could demo all GYE has to offer , we could print flyers, have a video presentation, Kumzitz with dov or Duvid Chaim, the possibilites are limitless

My point was only to educate the Rabbonim and for the senior chevra on this site to guide the process.
I do think there is what to be gained.

Pidaini hit a raw nerve with many of us.
the Rabbonim look down at the people with these problems.
That is probably true for many of them or some of them.
I am not effected by this sentiment, for I generally do not @#$$%%^&*** care what people think about me...especially if the people don't know it is me that the Rav is talkin' about. But let's face it...there is some truth in that. We were/will be/are doin' things that are pretty stinkin' low....especially me.

that bein' said...we are people as well, and we are interested in climbin' outta the @#$%%^le mess we created, and it will probably be much more effective if they talk positively and discuss improvement and growth and steps and process instead of excommunicatin' and gross and vile and filth and 'die in Hell' kinda rhetoric.

thanks

b'hatzlachah

cordnoy wrote:



We have to agree that GYE members are not a proof! once they're ALREADY here, they have already adimtted that they have a sex problem, then they are convinced to open up!
It wont work in a shul setting!

As Dov has said many times: Many are here but they are still hidin' behind their fake names....that is not called "openin' up."

Thanks

b'hatzlachah

Thanks Cordnoy. Excellent post! This really does address what was on my mind and that I mentioned to you in our chat.

I agree with you that the problem is probably more widespread than anybody knows. In today's society the opportunities to become a sex addict are more numerous than I can count (and I'm a math person). In addition, there are so many men that reach out on this website and that is probably just a fraction of the men that have a problem. Like many problems in Jewish communities, it takes a long time for our communities to admit to a problem and to deal with it in a constructive way. What you are doing is very constructive and I will consider sending an email like this to my rabbi.

It's probably a mix. I found GYE on my own after reading something by a rabbi that says we (especially men) need to guard your eyes in order to bring holiness to the Jewish people and the world. I literally did a search on "guard your eyes" to read more about the topic and found this website. Granted, my case is mild compared to most everybody else here, but I probably would never have stopped masturbating if it wasn't for this website and the inspiring stories and encouragement from everyone else here.

- David

I am not sure that an approach that appears to be based on a letter that reads like a "Kol Koreh" plastered on the walls in the average Torah observant neighborhood will work or resonate well as a means of facilitating discussion on the issue of sexual addiction and how it manifests itself in our community and as individuals.

GYE, in contrast, works because it requires anyone who is a member to take a long look in his mental mirror and realize how low he has sunk and that he is an addict. That is a fundamentally individual decision-not a Kol Koreh that indicts an entire commmunity as a cop out.

Yes, we have problems communally in addressing the issue outlined in such passionate terms, but we all have individual problems that only the individual must realize from the bottom of his heart. I don't think that condemning the entire community is either feasible or proper, when the problem is rooted in each and every person in the form of acting out in very different contexts as an individual. GYE exists as the only really communally sanctioned forum for discussing addiction to porn and masturbation, but only the individual can make the choice to sign up here, pour out his guts, and decide what he wants to do with his life, with the full recognition that even with the best of intentions and all the technologically advanced weapons at his behalf, he could either slip or have a fall, major or minor.

That being said, I think that we need also to think very seriously about how we, as Torah observant men, prepare for marriage, aside from a chasan class where we learn the basics of some of the most complicated Halacos in SA- Hilcos Nidah. Learning about emotional intimacy, how to be a giving spouse, and recognizing that marital intimacy is part of one's marital obligations , and that the Torah approach to marrital intimacy on the physical level neither is hedonistic nor prudish, as well as the fact that some of the greatest Rishonim wrote about seforim about marital intimacy strike me as crucial elements of preparation for marriage.