We consider it very important to go to the Mikvah, however many people are afraid to go that is why we are writing this.

Going to the Mikvah is one of the biggest Tikunim for Pgam Habris. Even if a person is still steeped in these actions, going to the Mikvah will help him change.

Many people have a myth that most Mikvas are dirty and crowded.

This is not true most Mikvas nowadays are in relatively nice buildings.
Most Mikvas are cleaned everyday.
Most Mikvas have their water changed everyday.
There is also chlorine in the water which kills all germs.
The chlorine itself should not be a problem since it is no worse then any other swimming pool.
Almost all people shower before entering the Mikvah.
Most Mikvah buildings contain at least one Mikvah that is at a room temperature.
Most modern Mikvas have nice showers with decent pressure and hot water.
Most of the time the showers are divided and have curtains.
Mikvas are very rarely crowded, only in the hours right before Shabbat or a Holiday.


Also if you want, you can take a shower after you dip in the Mikvah.
You can bring soap and shampoo with you.
No one will look at you like you are crazy if you bring shower slippers.

Some people are afraid to go because they are embarrassed to walk around with out clothes.

This is not such an issue since no one is looking at you. Most people do not look around at all while they are in the Mikvah. Also this is an unnatural feeling, if a person is doing a mitzvah he should not be embarrassed. It is only because of your sins of Pgam Habris that you are having these reactions. Someone who has purified himself a little and goes to the Mikvah everyday does not get embarrassed.

Either way, you can bring a large towel and drape it over your shoulder so it covers your private parts. There are many people who do this and it is recommended. The towel you remove at the last second before you enter the water or shower. Also even if you are embarrassed in the beginning, after a number of times it will go away, consider it part of your Tikun.

There are also certain hours when the Mikvah is almost always empty. Go then, there will be no one there.

There are those that are afraid that they have so defiled themselves that they will not be able to prevent themselves from fantasizing in the process and they will embarrass themselves.

These people should not forget how powerful the Mikvah is and how it can protect them. They should try going a number of times when it is empty and then they will see that they do have the ability to control their thoughts.

A person who goes to the Mikvah everyday besides the great Holiness he brings upon himself, he also saves himself from many situations and tests he would have to go through if he showered in his own home, where he has problems controlling his thoughts and desires.

A person who goes everyday does not have to be embarrassed to go when he sees Keri, because he goes to the Mikvah either way.

Practical Guide

1 - Find out the locations of all your local Mikvas, find out their hours some open as early as 3 AM.

2 - Pick one that suits you, if you are worried about cleanliness pick the nicest one.

3 - Figure out the hours when it will be totally empty. Very early in the morning, people go before praying Vatikin (Netz). Figure out the time right after the netz minyan starts it should be empty. Also depending on the minyanim in the area, there are always slots when it is almost always empty.

4 - Now go in and pretend you are looking for your shampoo bottle that you left there. When you see that the room is empty quickly jump into the Mikvah and out. If you are very afraid someone is going to walk in on you, then take the showers in your house, to shorten the time.

5 - Then one time, someone is going to walk in on you and you will be a little embarrassed. After this happens two, three times it will not bother you anymore. Soon you will be going on a busy Friday afternoon.

If you refuse to go then remember that all natural lakes and rivers can be used as a men's mikvah. Go to a river or the ocean. Wear your bathing suit, then when you are already in the water pull it off and do the immersions.

If you can't go every day then go at least on Erev Shabbot.
It is best to go from mid day and on. However if you must, go any time on Friday. This might be the best time to find it empty. Most Mikvas are open the whole day Friday. Try it around 11:00.

It is also very important to go if you see Keri. Also if you were Pogem Habris Heaven Forbid, in any way, run to the Mikvah as soon as you can.

Erev Yom Kipor is a must. Many Mikvas offer private sessions, where only one person at a time goes in.

What to do in the Mikvah

-Try to spend as little time as you can undressed (unless in water)
-Men do not make any Bracha (blessing) on the mikvah.
-Just undress and dip in the water.
-Make sure your whole body is underwater, and there is no hair sticking out.
-Also make sure you have no barrier on your body such as a watch or band aid.
-Dip once to remove impurity.
-Dip a second time to bring Holliness upon you
-On Erev Shabbat dip a third time for the honor of Shabbat.
-After that you can get out and leave, finished.

-If you want you can add as many meditations as you want, there are many on this site. Just make sure to do them only when you are in the water.

Be strong, give it a try

Here are some other websites on mikvah

www.mikva-tikva-hope.org />
www.heimishhome.com/mikva/mikvafind.htm />
www.shemayisrael.co.il/mikvaos />
www.mikvah.org />
www.kosher.co.il />
www.kosherdelight.com />
www.ou.org/services/mikvah

Just a little mikva warning -

it can be dangerous for sobriety. the worst way to recover from a fall is to do an action (and maybe pay money) which suggests that i'm finished with my falls and don't plan on falling ever again. that's addict thinking, and that's what going to the mikva can do, cause hey, if i will fall again today or tommorow i'm gonna have to do the whole thing over again. so i really don't plan on masturbating again, i plan on staying clean now forever. i'm literally washing myself off of the addiction. but no buddy, that won't work, i'm addicted and for all i know i'm gonna fall again in an hour.

so we gotta be carefull next time we run to the mikva right after a fall, that it shouldn't be "יצא שכרו בהפסדו".

CC! A very brave statement to make on a website that is likely to have at least a few "Tikun-Klali (TK) experts"! You know, like the people who are sincerely sure they are 'marriage experts' because they have been married many times... , there are some very frum and very sincere staunch TK experts...'experts' because they say it practically every week after they masturbate.

Alright, enough cynicism out of me...blah, blah, blah...

But really you are saying simple seichel. Everyone knows that a mitzvah can be done with very poor timing and therefore not actually be the ratzon Hashem at that time - or for that person. Doing a mayseh chessed can lead to divorce - if the person's chessed is repeatedly done when they should be with their wife or family. I personally know of misapplication of beautiful mitzvos and maisim tovim - that cause bitterness and destruction in real life. RMCh"L writes in his first chapter Nekiyus (I think) that it is important to see what bad repercussions may be resulting from the good deeds he is doing. Nu, maybe he is referring to a high madreigah there, but the laws of nature and relationships can be pretty merciless sometimes, and good intentions in the doer's mind do not actually counterbalance the pain in the heart of the affected person. Hashem yatzileinu mishgiyos!

Same with Mikvah (which I am a big proponent of, in general). As CC writes, going to the mikvah can be like throwing down the gauntlet at the YH and a challenge for 'the next time'. That would be a terrible idea, and tantamount to looking at a dirty magazine. It all depends on the heart of the doer, here.

It reminds me of what I read the Chozeh would say: "I prefer the rosho who knows he is a rosho, to the tzaddik who knows he is a tzaddik."

Mikveh is definitely a great decision overall to enhance your state of mind. It should not be used only after being nichshal, rather it should be a set thing. After being nichshal, it should defiantly be used.
That's what I do. It's not an atonement, but it helps...

It is good to create emotional knowledge that m*** and p*** is wrong. After all, intellectual knowledge gets us no where, but emotional knowledge always works. Taphsic can work because it drives home the idea that m*** has consequences- something we obviously don't know emotionally. So when Eliezer/Alex would pinch his inner thigh when he took a drink, he was creating emotional knowledge that lust is bad.
So maybe the mik is good- but just like the pinch is not payback for a drink, $100 to GYE is not payback for m***. But it may get us to stop eventually.
Depends what you have in mind... Just like just about anything else in life.

i feel pure and better after i go but im nichsul quicker then usal for some odd reason

At the end of the day only the Lord can help us (he helps those who help themselves)

In my humble opinion, The Lord wants us to be clean and tahor.

To quote Rebby Nahman of Bres-love "Erst iz Mikva"

Dov- please don't shoot me!

melost wrote on 31 Oct 2012 16:49:

I wonder (out "loud") if it has anything to do with what Dr Sorotzkin says about perfectionism. They have high "highs" and low "lows". What they need is stability.

If you feel that going to the mikvah somehow has a negative affect and "causes" you to act out. It seems to be a davar pashut that you should not go. I know mikvah is considered very important, but the issur of acting out is certainly more important.

mr. wrote on 31 Oct 2012 18:16:


OK, so I have no bullets in my gun - I do not even have a gun.

But there is a very important point to me that I want to make in light of your post. You seem to see me as some sort of anti-Torah or anti-religious person. But here is what I think the truth is - and it is the most important yesod for me.

Yes - I truly believe that Hashem is the only one who can help me. I cannot speak for you because religious dogma is obviously not what saves anyone here...for you all have tons of true religious knowledge of the true religion - and you are still unzipping your pants and masturbating yourselves when you really need to...right? That's why GYE is here, right? For people like us - frum people who watch naked people anyway and hate ourselves for it and wish we'd stop...but do not.

Which leads me to my point:

When you say "the L-rd" wants us to stop and be tahor, and when you quote Reb Nachman..are you really talking about Hashem - or to information about Hashem...and are you really referring to Rebbe Nachman - or to the principles of Rebbe Nachman? I do not know you and your issue with porn, masturbation or whatever. But I believe that the reason that frum people fail at using religious principles to succeed at staying 'tahor' is this:

They are worshipping the ideas and not the G-d himself. They think they have a relationship with Hashem but do not. They as yet only have a theoretical relationship. The absolutely correct concept...but no partner. We can have the right religion - yet have no success at life because we do not have a G-d yet. We have 'Elokim' or 'Havaya' - but do not have 'Elokai'. And that is what it is all about per the Chovos halevavos, and everyone else. The Zohar calls the mitzvos taryag ittin - eitzos. Eitzos for what? For a relationship with Hashem that works. The Sfas Emess points out that in the last parsha of Sh'ma Hashem does not ask us to be kedoshim - He asks us to be kedoshim layloKeichem.

If I am still porning and having sex with myself (some call that 'masturbation' - or for more sterility, "zera levatola"), then I do not have a working relationship with my own G-d yet. No matter how many peyos I have and how I tie my techeiles or whether I cry my eyes out at every lecha Dodi or not.

I believe that in recovery people find the real G-d - a G-d they can (and do) call their own: Elokai. They make Him their own. And that is the only thing He really wants - a true dira batachtonim. And that is "the L-rd" you refer to. Not the writings of Hashem or the teachings of Rebbe Nachman.

I hope you know that I love you and have no gun. Please do not shoot me back, either, chaver.

First of all why don't you have a gun Dov? are you one of those liberal left wingers? :
As Meir Kahana once said "Every Jew, a .22" (no I don't pay membership dues to the NRA, and my real name is not
George Zimmerman)
But down to your point, yes I agree that something is screwed up in our connection to the Lord, (although i guess a case could be made that just abot everybody's connection is screwed up somewhat) And i think that the whole 12 steps are based on God or a higher power - y'know we can't do it ouselves... Now us being Jews, are we alowed to take our own God as a higher power? or does it have to be a fluffy benovelent good guy/thing in our imagination? Now if we surrender to the God of the Jews does that mean that we should read his book and follow it to the best of our ability? will this be part of our surrender ie. Lord! i shall do your will- screw my will!
and if this is true, then are we - through extension- allowed to read the holy works of Rebby Nachman, and other great tsaddikim?

Thanks for your support!

BTW Dov, I am not declaring war or anything like that - one thing is for sure is that you have 15 years under you belt (pun intended?) and as Vince Lombardi once said "Never change a winning combination"

Of course we Jews can 'choose' Hashem as our Higher Power! But that is not the answer. The program I know if is not about which G-d we choose - it is about whether we really choose Him. It is also not about yesterday - it is about right now. You see, this gets right down to the core of what's going on here on GYE and with so many religious addicts in general. We say "Hashem hu haElokim!"...but we really are just parroting the party line. And that is acceptable for normal Jews. In yiddishkeit (not in the Sforim, but in the real world you and I actually function in - that is a very important distinction) a person can get very, very far with a chitzoniyus relationship w/Hashem..we all do, actually. But in recovery it all hits the fan. We get nowhere. For a fake relationship with G-d - in other words, a pretend god - cannot keep us sober. It just does not work. And of course G-d is not fake just because He is fake to us - but it's the relationship that matters (see Bilvovi Mishkan Evneh, Chovos haLevavos and elsewhere).

To paraphrase your buddy Vince Lombardi: "The relationhip isn't everything - it's the only thing!"

Now, as you mention, safah v'lachutz is substandard for any Jew. But for a Jew who also happens to be a drunk or a pervert - it doesn't work, at all. It yields a big, holy, Zero. He or she keeps doing idiotic, destructive things and sincerely wondering why G-d is not 'working'!

Haven't we all been there? Aren't we all sincerely shocked after we feel so 'right' after we learn really good, daven tearfully good, mekarev someone real good, have sincerely loving zivug with our wives, or cry through a gorgeous Lecha Dodi...and then go off the next day and masturbate again? Where is our G-d?

In his dying wish, Rabban Yochanan ben Zakai wished his talmidim - who were holy tanna'im! - that their fear of Heaven should become like their fear of people. They expressed their clear dissapointment with that 'brocha', and he explained to them that people (they/we) really do not have the connection we think we have with ouir own G-d. That was a madreiga - this is recovery. In recovery there is either a real relationship - like when we use our real names with eachother and meet face to face - or just a pretend one. The Kotzker (as usual) had the guts to say it straight: He asked his people where G-d is. They answered him with M'lo kol ho'oretz Kvodo, Leis asar ponui menei klal, and maybe even with writings of Rebbe Nachman zy"a. He said, "No, no, no..." Then he said "Herr ztuch ein: G-d is where you let Him in!" This is my point exactly. Rabban Yochanan ben Zakai was talking to tanno'im...I am a boychik sitting in 2012 who barely knows which way is up. Mah nomar al ha'eizov bakir?

In other words, it's not about information, intelligence, religion, or brains - it is about honesty and humility.

And if we are really honest with ourselves, we will see that after spending the last 15 years masturbating our brains out to sweet porn every now and then...'getting it right' inside us - where it really counts - will definitely not happen by osmosis, will not happen because we want it to, will not happen by reading mussar sforim or recovery sforim or by liking ourselves better or by suddenly 'feeling good'.

It will require some real, patient work over some real time.

Do you get me? Did it feel like a 'sermon at gunpoint' to you?

dov wrote on 01 Nov 2012 20:23:


OH YEAH!

It says in the sforim (oh boy here we go again) that when you get real high^{TZ will provide the source}, and great hitorerut, be careful to do AN ACTIO, A MA'ASEH - to make a keli to hold the spirituality- because this is a time when good ol' Lefty (y'know Sammy - the YH - the sitra akhra etc...) will throw you a curveball and knock you down. (sort of like a seagull picking up turtles in their beaks and raising them to great heights and dropping them to have them break on the rock down below . SPLAT.

Do not be satisfied with feeling good and high - think of it as a power-up in a video game, use it as a chance to kill more demons or shoot mor un-dead creepy things until it ends and don't be sad when its over.

God gives them to us from time to time, but make sure to capitalize on them and not squander them

(kinda like a Power Play, thereis nothing more demorilizing than a short handed goal)

And it's definately not about brains or information-

It's about DEDICATION and RESPONSIBILITY!

Back to mikva - if i beleive mikva has a magical power to purify and put me in the right mindframe is that good?

ONE IMPORTANT NOTE - IF FOR WHATEVER REASON YOU DO NOT GO, PLEASE DO NOY LEARN KABALLAH (ZOHAR?)

Please see sefer Maor Vashamesh who says this is the reason why Sabbettai Zvi and Kat Dilai went off the deep.

First of all, please PM Machshovoh Tovah and ask him about my kabolah problems. Second, I do go to the mikvah frequently though I have only had a wet dream once in the past thirteen or fourteen years, b"H. Does that mean a lot to me? No, not really. It's far more important that I have not had to have sex with myself or with anyone other than my wife for even longer than that, and that Hashem is the only one who could do that for me. So I can love Him even more, now. Mikvah could never, ever, have gotten me anywhere near the good life I have now, today. Never.

But what will really be helpful is this: Are you OK sharing when the last time you had to masturbate or use porn was? Please do. For getting honest about that is where the good stuff is.

[quote=dov link=topic=2088.msg145401#msg145401 date=1348966841]
CC! A very brave statement to make on a website that is likely to have at least a few "Tikun-Klali (TK) experts"! [/
[/quote]
the beis yisrael of gur said that tikkun klali is a big tikun but dosnt tell his chasidim as people will say ill sin and then say tikun klali

dov wrote on 01 Nov 2012 21:41:


Hellooooo! check out my thread - The path to the Gaurden of Emunah - all is documented there.

In regards to Mik or not, i was thinking a lot about it - me thinks it has a lot to do with your perception - if you R a Hasidic type of guy who goes to the Mik all the time erev shabbat - post zivug - monday /thursday - just for the heck of it - or even after wet dreams (sounds like something an alkie would have...) your mind doesn't automaticaly associate it with acting out, so it'e not such a big issue.

Second point - If you have hasidic beliefs (or you learn kabbalah) you will be totaly spooked out by the prospect of not toiveling when needed, I know that if i need a mikva and can't get one i am OIS MENTCH

One last point regarding Shmirat Eynaim in the Mik, this is much bigger issue than people think, It is definately not good to go around checking out all the other visitors, and even by mistake a SA guy can get all the wrong thoughts...

also I think it's probably better to go when there are other people, as this is a shmira aginst acting out in the mikva

BTW Dov I really appreciate your interest - you are something of a hero to me so i feel very honored to be having a semi-intelligent discussion with you.