Couldnt hold back looking, could you, eh?
Figured if i dont have content, at least i could make up for it with controversy (before they expell me to the land of the silenced banned ones, that is )
Now i really didnt know if this should be placed here, or in "just having fun'' or in a totally new subject called ''trouble''-we miss you, by the way!)
There are those (usually big wise elders type men, that will denounce this and say it doesnt belong here at all-this is the way to get them to not comment at all, btw.)
Oh right! I almost forgot what i wanted to say!
There was a recording sent out recently by a prominent member of gye. He doesnt need my haskamah, but i want this to be taken in context that he is quite an impressive individual, and even i fargin him that. (dont know what fargin is?! where were you raised! these boys nowadays...tsk, tsk...)
That being said something he said struck a cord(s) in me and i posted about it a while back, but unfortunately i am having trouble (hint) locating the old post. out with the old, and on with the new, i say!
i am not addressing the recordings message, which was almost as long as his posts (c'mon, i get at least 2 points for that one) and almost all that he said sounded great and from lots of expirience (the exp. part is def. true.)
Now im uninterested about infering and analyzing his words like a rishon and please dont correct me on that. my point is there was a message given over that to say every non jew (ish lady) is consumed with the desire for men to obsess over her is simply not true and its just a ploy of guys that want to think like that because they really want to continue viewing them as objects, and not the human beings with thier own busy lives that they are.
before i rant, (didnt i do that already?) I want to express a little difficulty with posting on a forum in general, and gye in particular. no two minds think alike. your words will be misconstrued and pliable like spaghetti before you have time to edit it. gye is a place that many many types frequent and serves them in-you got it-many different ways.
For the fellow that is addicted-sorry i dont really relate (im using the word really for a reason) but to the jew that wants to and is basically doing the will of Hashem yet he has some lusting issues, gye can be a great source of chizzuk for him. i know this from exp. 
And I am talking to fellows in the latter category.
when we talk about non jewish society it comes to mind an interview of a respected news station anchor and a religious activist (And a rabbi-to complete the joke) 
Here is the substance of the conversation (this hapened around 2 years ago) 
Respected News Guy Dude Face (RNGDF): Say, Religiou Activist (RA) Porn is really something wrong? I mean, whats absolutely WRONG about it? 
RA: Oh its definetly immoral and-
RNGDF: Immoral? But wouldnt you agree thats just a religious issue...?
RA: Sure its wrong from a religious point, but i think many would agree that it destroys relationships and marriages and therefore is wrong even from a theoretical point of view
RNGDF: Really? I dont think you can label it wrong outside of religion...

i heard from an adom gadol that when a certain state legalized same sex marriage they really assumed the status of sodom but perhaps we didnt see no fire and brimstone cuz maybe there are 50 righteous people in the city...
There are 2 issues here.
1. does the non jewish society think and busy themselves with sex and specifically znus?
2. when a jew thinks FEH! What a prutzah etc. is he really a sick pervert that wants to continue objectify women?
Have we honestly lost our logical minds?! society sells sex at every corner,  toevah tachas kol eitz vzayis raanan, teenagers with urges mingle with mixed gender classes and are even encouraged to have girlfriends and take them to the prom etc whatever...you think it makes sence that these people are not much more prone twords free and active promiscuity, znus, and yes-even wanting men to obsess over them???? (even if not ALL its def. something to suspect! you practicaly cant find a good book or movie today that doesnt have-yup-indecent matireal in it because thats what SELLS! CUZ THATS WHAT THE NON JEWISH SOCIETY ENCOURAGES AND WANTS! 
I am not saying theres anything objectively wrong with them as people or judging them and of course there is a divine plan for them in this world.
And its true that there are fellows who think that every non jewish lady wants men to obsess etc. for a bad reason.
But dont paint ALL the people with a broad brush and say that EVERY guy that says FEH! is really a sick pervert! There are those that this helps for. And if you cannot see the difference between the desire for this and chazzer-which most FFBs dont really have a desire, then shalom to you. the comparision is absolutely ridiculous. Regarding this, for some people FEH! TUMAH! helps alot more than ''Hashem please help sheniqua''!
Guys that think like that want to continue to objectify women?! guys?! like ALL guys?!
Good heavens you dont KNOW THAT, you never will KNOW THAT, and you have no proof that there are not many who really feel that way- for a good reason! 
The problem with using superlatives is that they are almost always wrong, never true, and lol-im using superlatives but over here its proper! 
 there are many types and stripes on gye I respect them all in terms of whatever works for them. some ppl pray for the lady and some say feh! i hear both and i dont discredit either.
I, and no one, has any right or real reason to.
all being said and done i have tremendous respect for the fellow recorded and this is just a good natured discussion even if the tone is heated. (hes a toughie, and he can take it, too) But for ''guys'' like me, i think this message is crucial-and if it doesnt work for you-thats fine too! thats why i put this thread in ''what works for me!''
peace out.
  

I don’t think this is controversial, I think this is the truth. I decided to take the plunge in answering some SSA forums even though I had abstained from it till now, the responses were a little bit ridiculous, completely trashing me for saying lies, they painted everyone with a big fat 1 foot long paint brush with labels and said clearly there is something wrong with me. I’m sorry, I suffered with SSA for 4 years and now I haven’t had a single SSA though in the last two months? Clearly it MUST be me....I don’t know what’s going on here but I feel the SSA forums need to be moderated more, there are some sketchy people on there that I would try to help out of their predicament. One guy told me because I like women but I would hang out with friends (males obviously), there’s something wrong with me, I’m sorry say what? Because I like a woman I can no longer hang out with a man??................?

But I do remember me acting in this way when I had SSA (thoughts), I firmly believe it is a twisted version of lust because the man wants a relationship with another man socially and does not have the self-esteem to do so. They need to feel valued and worth’ful’.

please note, that in my posts I stated that it was my personal experience and my opinion. NOT my “expert” opinion (I am not a expert, please do not brand my opinion as one)

Edit: This was a long rant when I got frustrated with some of the forums and used this as a way to let off steam while simultaneously agreeing with higher's point

Also note: we are talking about SSA thoughts, NOT actually getting graphic with another (sheesh I have to explain everything down to a ‘i’ and the ‘t’)

My point is: everyone’s opinion is their opinion and you have every right to disagree
but like higher said there is no reason for labels and painting everyone with one paintbrush 

Higher, your comments are very true. Unfortunately the society around us has become decadent. Even at government level, the Judeo-Christian attitudes of the founding fathers of the USA are being scorned. Liberalism has become a "religion" with a clear agenda of turning 21st century Western Culture into a replica of Greek culture which was a most hedonistic society. That being said, there are many moral and upright Americans who abhor this matzav as much as we do. 

Regarding those who say "feh", I would say the following. There sadly are individuals who always are the ones who "happen to notice" the latest pritzus trends etc. Unfortunately, many of those fellows are in need of help, being hyper-focused on sex themselves. They "enjoy" being on the forefront of inyanei kedusha, probably because they get aroused by it. I state this after having spoken to some such fellows that BH got help and got out of this masquerade. (One was actually a chosson rebbi - imagine his turmoil, the feelings of hypocrisy were destroying him).The professionals they used first demand was -"You may not advise chassanim, you may not go to rabbanim with the latest clothing issues, you may not get involved in shalom bayis issues, etc". These guys are not reshaim, they are cholim.

However there are just as many or more, healthy and normal individuals, who do not notice "everything", but from time to time come across something repulsive (nowadays it's almost impossible for this not to happen). When they say "feh!", they mean it! They are disgusted with the fact that they are raising a family of sweet kids that have to witness this cesspool. 

Let's all daven that Hashem shower a ruach tahara on the world...…..A world of no more "feh"s…...

sleepy wrote on 16 Jun 2020 21:48:

no one is taking the bait on that, mate.
but this isnt about starting a fight. plenty of that going on now though, but over here we dont even have the cops, save the mods...
This is about ''down with the paintbrush''! and ALL lives (even those that are different) MATTER!
Seriously though, I myself sometimes look at reality,people,situations through such a myopic I project from my own experience and like minded people that it almost seems as if other personalities, other types, another opinion, derech etc. ...just doesnt exist. And I think its appropriate to call it out when that happens on a public platform. I remember (although its hazy) that this sort of topic came up before and i called out someone for saying something like most of people protesting in meah shearim for tznius have big kedusha issues themselves and that theres a direct connection. 
My response?
''Uh, you took a survey''?
 How do you know that?
Maybe most ARE sincere? 
OMG is it possible that despite your experience other people are different??
I welcome anyone who believes that i am mistaken in my message to speak up.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 16 Jun 2020 22:10:

Thank you for your calm and cool understanding HHM.
Someone please take a screenshot of HHM's post and set it up as a model how one should give advice on gye. 
see the balance? some like this, sick....some not like that....healthy.
no broad strokes, no generalizing and no telling anyone, if you say ''feh''!, must be your just a pervert. 
encore!

sleepy wrote on 17 Jun 2020 00:06:

Sleepy is a full blown, no holes barred, absolute riot.

I was respectfuly approached by someone on gye who pointed out that i am painting the fellow who recorded an audio message for gye in a negative light. 
 I was reminded that this fellow is an incredible person and is very dedicated to helping others and is successful as well.
I apologize to anyone who took my previous posts that way. 
I actually was careful to write how much i respect the he-who-must-not-be-named individual and this is nothing personal. I just disagree sharply with the way he presented one of his points, and i feel it is fair to debate it, even strongly. (perhaps the way i spoke about the ''chazzer parable was too rough, but i dont think so.) This topic is not just important to me, nor to the ppl that responded, but to many who did not. 
and to be clear the he-who-must-not be-named doesnt gave a @#$% what i think or say about him anyway.
If anyone here has a different agenda thats thier issue. 
And if anyone still has a problem with my posts i am ready and willing to listen.

After checking in with the gye member who private chatted me again, it was pointed out that despite my reasoning i should consider using a lighter and not such an aggressive tone. It may create bad vibes.
I have to think about that.
I will say that after thinking about it some more, i believe i responded in my sharp tone because i personally was spoken to several times by individuals-who are well meaning and perhaps tzaddikim-in a way that they know what they are talking about and the heck with your (my) opinion. They spoke as if what they are saying is fact and its just nebach those that dont follow thier advice. I am not the only one feels like this here. and i daresay far from it. I dont think that the recorded message by voldemort (there! i said his name!) was really given in that tone but once there were superlatives and lack of recognition for another opinion i had my allergic reaction. 
I apologize to any offended parties, although i am a bit confused if anyone is truly owed an apology-but i dont want to offend anyone, regardless.
I will conclude with this. the post that HHM wrote above is gold. That is how you post and give advice in a neutral way. when you know who you are talking to-then shoot from the hip at your ''target'' audience, why not? when you are on a worldwide platform-i think that more caution and sensitivity for differing opinions and where people are holding is necessary. 
my take, anyway.

Maybe voldemort is a little bit of a stretch?. 

Perhaps Snape?

Btw I think this thread brought out a lot of good points. I think, once again that HHM made all the relevant points. Thanks HHM well said.

sleepy wrote on 17 Jun 2020 05:03:

He's referring to this audio share by Dov:
https://guardyoureyes.com/articles/archive?tmpl=component&view=show&layout=preview&newsletterId=864#article-4879

Although I don't think I understand what exactly he is taking issue with. Dov is speaking from the point of view of someone who knows they are sick and cannot look normally at a woman. For such a person, they can't go around the whole day saying "Feh". They have to learn that all women are just people, creations of Hashem. And the best way to do that is by reminding oneself that they are human, they don't crave perverts who want to see them as objects, and they have wants, needs and insecurities. By praying for them, we help ourselves develop the right attitude towards them.

Cats outta the bag! Gaurd, you spoiled everything!
I think there are fellows here who do understand what i am talking about.
I listened to the audio and although i hear what you are saying-this is not the first time this discussion was discussed on this forum (markz would prob. be able to unearth it, but i doubt he has interest) then it was def. a general discussion (unless i completely missed the boat). In terms of reb dovs recording (Voldemort had a much better ring...) The recording was placed as part of a general chizzuk email from gye together with thier standard shmiras einayim chizzuk matireals even for ''healthier people'' I dont believe Dov made any such disclaimers (although i think you are right gaurd), and this is besides the fact that there are MANY gray areas in terms of madreigos where people are holding and if or not ''feh'' will be appropriate. I could be wrong, but i think it was still confusing. at least for all the less intelligent among us like myself who actually were confused by the audio.
#less intelligent lives matter!
Aside from the above point, there is something else which Gaurd is not addressing. I was also trying to highlight that there is a very practical difference of the way non jewish women (and men) are influenced to view these topics. And thats way outside the discussion that we are the am hanivchar etc. (although perhaps it has roots over there...)
I believe that there was purposefull content amongst these posts (thank you IWNGU for bringing that out) regardless and for those that relate I ask that the basic message (being very broad minded and accepting that many have complete opposite experinces then the one giving advice) does not get washed away. 
P.s. despite sleepys outrage, i am still considering further editing my post. The protester is not narrow minded, (my opinion), he mostly just wants to suggest that gye should be on a positive tone. He also felt i was a bit sharp in my disgreement. I agree that the tone on GYE should be hopeful and positive, even though emotions sometimes get the better of me.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Dov painted all frum people into one stroke, saying that those who criticize the goyish culture are really white washing their tayves. 
But from what I understood he said that there are many frum people where their "frumkeit" stands in their way. They do, in fact, use the pritzus argument (which is no doubt true, society has become corrupted) as an excuse for their behaviour. Meaning, yes, the wide society has become sexually explicit (what's even the chiddush here?), but even if that were not the case, you'd still have your issue. The problem with it is that, so long they don't realize the problem is within them, they won't really change. In their minds, they will think them to be tzadikim and the goyish culture the culprit when in fact, they are the ones who are ill. That is not to say society isn't sexually explicit or that those who criticize it are really sick pervs. But many addicts do criticize it as an excuse for their behaviour or worse, use it as a justification and thus never change.

Snowflake wrote on 17 Jun 2020 14:27:

well said. i would word it slightly diff. but i think everyone gets the point. 

Bein yisroel l'amim-enjoy! under 5 minutes.
www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=115271
please notify me if the link doesnt work.