Shlomo24 wrote on 10 May 2016 17:48:

And I find some of the responses sad.

cordnoy wrote on 10 May 2016 19:13:

Yeah. Like I said before, it's funny/sad. I think, for me, that the humor stems from the fact that it's so sad.

Whats so sad? I think the sad part is that someone actually invested time and energy in going the torah way (which many say is a source of the 12 steps) on a site used largly by torah jew, and he's mocked and laughed at.  don"t you think that if we invested the same energy and diligence in the torah sources as we do in the 12 steps, we can also do well there. People here quote reshonim on the 12 steps, rabainu steve, bob, and others. Its great that we are working a recovery program so diligently, but don't say that the torah won't work for us. The 12 steps are common sence steps to deal with daily living. It is presented in a neat and orginized way, so we use it. Great. It works for many, although not for all. Why not? Maybe those people didnt do it right, or maybe they had a different sort of problem. different ways work for different strays. As Dov said, most people on gye are not addicts, let them use their way and let them post about it, just like those who are addicted post their way.

mirror wrote on 11 May 2016 14:50:

I don't know who you are referring to, but I specifically said that some of the responses were sad.

Yes, i was refering mostly to a general attitude. 

Mirror, just to clarify: Whatever works. Especially if its the Torah way. The issue here is that alot of us look at this site as an opportunity to honestly share our struggles and our journey. We hesitate to pontificate - to darshen blaa"z. Sure those maamarei chazal are amazing. Truly. I for one would love a follow-up post about how to implement that in daily life and what to do if its not working ... 

Realsimcha, can i just change one word that you wrote. Maybe i am a fanitic, but i truly believe that if "it's not working" it's actually that we're not working. I'm not knocking the 12 steps, i am learning them too and they help many people. But they are what 100, 200 years old? less? We have a bigger book thats over 5000 years old that has been added to constaintly over the years, and for the most part we have no idea how to get sober using it. I use the 12 steps because i have people in my situation who teach it to me. It's sad but true but i don't know of any large group that can teach and apply the torah way.  What gets me upset though is when i hear frum people saying that if you are a frum jew who learnt torah and acted out anyway, then obvously the torah isn't working for you.  How about we arent working the torah. L'havdel it is like reading the white book in your second language without thinking and applying it in earnest every day. The 12 steps won't work then either.
 

Mirror, not to argue with what you wrote, but a danger with posting a post like the one in the beginning of this thread is that people who are  coming on this site for the first time, will see that as advice for the masses and although it is true, as you yourself said we do need someone to teach us how to do it from the torah (with the exception i believe, of davening. Anyone can do that) Often just sayin the words won't be enough, so a newcomer will get very discouraged and may give up without realizing that he was doing it without guidance. Other methods here, although not from a devine source, do at least have people teaching them who have expereince in trying them.

But i thought that the fourm posts were different then the articles. The fourm is not professionals. Just regular people who are posting what works for them.

There is a lot of content on the site.
People will do what they ultimately find works for them. 
There are things that I agree with on here, and things I don't agree with.
If I come across something that goes against what I find is true for me, I have a choice. I can either ignore it, or ask for clarification.
Back in the day, GYE was a place where everyone got along. There was no belittling, and there was no telling off. Sure there was the occasional argument, but it was done respectfully. 
I hope we can go back to that.

Once again, the gye editor blew up my post.
Oh well.
I will try again, but much shorter.

Mr mirror, welcome.

What has been your story?

Many have argued that the Torah and mussar approach should be used for recovery, but sadly, we have no record of that working for too many people, if any at all. Some have posted that it is the way or even the only way, but they didn't stick around long enough to tell us the outcome.

I do not think the initial poster should be mocked, but it would be nice to hear his story (and yours as well).

B'hatzlachah

 

And skep, although I agree with you (and I can be nasty as well), I don't think it's completely a new problem. Peruse the old threads; I'm not sure "respectful" is the word I would use for some of them.

cordnoy wrote on 11 May 2016 17:06:

Anyway, what's wrong with people speaking up and speaking their minds? We are all so different, shouldnt we debate and argue about whats important to us as Jews have done for 3000 years? Of course we have to be respectful. Of course we have to refrain from name calling. But do we have say, "Whateva man... its all good... peace out bro'..." to everything? Let people speak up and say whats on their mind. Isn't that healthy?

cordnoy wrote on 11 May 2016 17:03:

Thank you. (If this was the short one i can only imagine the long one...), 
It would be nice to hear an update from anon, as for my own story i perfer to skip the intro for now (if thats allowed). I'm not completly new here.
 

Sure -
Ask questions on what was written.
You can ask about the guy's personal story, and he can share if he feels like it.

However, the first 3 posts after the initial one didn't do any of that. They were just straight out mocking and belittling. I take issue with that.