Ok firstly, what I have learned through this forum, people are made of different DNA. My lust is not the sane as your lust. So what works for some won't be exactly as another.

There seems to be an ongoing conseus that its the SA non fight approach. But at the same time there is lots of litreature on GYE relating to terms like fighting, struggling and no pain no gain. That seems to imply that fighting maybe a plan for some of us. Below are just two examples of what I mean;

guardyoureyes.com/the-gye-program/the-30-principles/21-principles-for-the-struggle/item/principle-5?category_id=279

guardyoureyes.com/the-gye-program/the-30-principles/21-principles-for-the-struggle/item/principle-4?category_id=279

Here is my approach and I am wondering if anyone has tried my approach and has anyone succeeded?

I would like to mix fighting lust with surrendering and realzing that we can't win alone. We also need hashem's help in succeeding. So we fight as good as we can and leave the rest for hashem. Now let me define a few pointers about fighting;

1) Half hearted is no good. Fighting means no more old ways. It means your goal should be to erdiacate all forms of lust. It means no masterbating or porn. You can't just tackle one of the two because each one leads to the other.
2) Fighting is best done before the yetzer comes. Once it hits us running into a freezing cold shower won't work. Plan accrodingly so lust won't kick in. This is best outlined in principle 8
3) A bit realted to pointer two fighting means making a strategy. So if you have a pressurized day what can you do to release the pressure other than lust? Say (like me) that you go to sleep via lust switch your sleeping pattern. Find some other entertainment.

Where I am so far in my fight?

I have a long way to go but I look at it as a process. Yes I will probably fall again but I'll pick up the pieces and work on my past gains. Take a look at prinicpal 19 below;

guardyoureyes.com/the-gye-program/the-30-principles/21-principles-for-the-struggle/item/principle-19-we-don-t-lose-past-gains-after-a-fall

Whats more, once I choose to take on the battle I have discovered a few nice things;

1) I won't die without my lust dose. I have always thought that there is no way that I can make it thru the day without lust. But I can and I must.
2) My mind is so much clearer when I don't act out. When I know I just can't give in I am not so obssesed with it a whole day. I can work like a mentch without always looking back at my lust.

Now perhaps fighting is the wrong word. Maybe we should look at it more of like a disease. We don't necessarly fight a disease we treat it. We go on diets or do what we have to so the we can circumvent flare ups.
So fighing or treating my disease has helped me tremoundsley. I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way? Can we look at this at all as struggle that we need to do out part and turn to hashem to help us for the rest. Or no thats half hearted. We must check into SA and give up the notion of any fighting.

Once again has anyone succeeded via fighting mixed with bitachon or no?

waydown wrote:


I know it's a typo, but I just couldn't resist.

I don't think anyone's lust is sane, neither mine or yours.

L'gufo shel inyan, I've also found looking at it as a disease has helped me deal deal with my addiction.

And Bitochon has helped me tremendously with my guerilla warfare against it.

LOL thanks Berelfiner I loved your pointer about my typo.

So yes we look at it as a disease? But you label it as a "guerilla warfare". And so it seems like your startegy is to wage war??? And so at least for you it has been helpful to view it as a fight?

I specifically wrote guerilla warfare, not head on fighting, for that just won't work (for me). Guerilla warfare means sabotaging the enemy without confronting him face to face, e.g. I made public a hachloto that I won't sit down to a computer without having a clear plan exactly what I'm going to do, then I do just that and nothing more.

"This is a time saving strategy nothing to do with fighting lust."
Guerilla warfare? Not head on?

Thanks I agree and thats defintley my plan also. Basically one must plan accordingly. Although not to get too specific I sit by a computer an entire day.

And so its safe to rename it treating my disease before it acts up.

Now my question is what do you do when that devil inside you does act up?

I really don't know, I try as hard as possible not to reach a situations that allows him to rear his ugly head.

Yes I love that altitude. Like I posted earlier we all have differnet DNA. Following your apporach will work 90% of the time. But say you are in the office next to a good looking girl. Or like me sometimes I could have no triggers but just be lying in bed when I get a terrible itch that just drives me nuts to relieve myself. What do I do then? So I have built a startegy where I go to sleep using other forms of entertainment (other than lust). And I try not to engage in these stuff during the day lest it hit me by nite. But it does attack me sometimes. Now what???

I give up.

...then there are two people who could take charge, the devil, or Hashem and I think that I have private line to Hashem and He"ll be ever so happy to come to the rescue.

While it is always said WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU, it is still best to try what has worked for others. Kudos for you to develop a new method of healing from our struggles. But B"H there have been many that had the same or similar struggles than us, and they have tried almost everything.

If you try what you wrote above, please keep us posted how things are moving, and to which direction.

For now keep it strong.

Hatzlacha, And כתיבה וחתימה טובה

berelfiner wrote:


I'm so sorry. I have no desire to get into this discussion, but I just logged on and saw this. I'm sure you don't mean it as it sounds but what you've written is not in keeping with the basic principles of Judaism. I know you don't mean it as you wrote it, I just couldn't not poitnt it out.

Ok Lomed so let me rephrase my question for you.

If you read through the 21 principles on this site you will see that there is a basic suggested outline of how to approach this disease. The basic outline is how I described it. There is lots of talk about battling the yetzer going thru pain, struggling and picking up where you left off. The litreature very much implies that at least some of us should try approaching this via a well thought out startegy to tackle lust combined with faith in hashem.

On the other hand those who have used the SA model seem to suggest oh no don't look at it as a struggle and get busy making stratagies how to best tackle it. Rather look at it as leaving it to a higher power and just working on onesself to let the higher power get rid of lust.

To me it seems like its an approcah the DID work for others just not those in SA (I don't think GYE would print a useless appproach). I see the SA fans as very vocal but I am trying to hear from those that didn't jump into SA full swing as well.

Just do what works for you.
This entire thread is pickin' a fight.
I don't believe you summarized the SA method correctly either, but I won't get involved.
Do what works for you, and post freely what your experiences are.

b'hatzlachah

Cordnoy,

Thats entirely not point. I truely appologize if I come across that way. I am just trying to understand if there are two paths to choose or there is only one path. I see people post stuff like keeping up the battle. I see GYE post stuff that allude to life time struggles. To me it seems like perhaps there are two main ways to go on this which somewhat overlap. 1) battle your lust while faith in hashem 2) somehow just let go of the lust and let a higher power deal with it.

I'll repeat I am in no way trying to pick a fight. I am simply trying to understand all the back & forths and differnet terms.

Re just do what works for me. Well thats what I am trying to figure out. What works for me?? Again I see two differnet approcahes. Yet in the forums there seems to be an overwhelming majorty going after the SA approach.

Oh and forgive my term "SA approach". I don't mean that per say. I mean the pro struggle and pain approach verse the "sereine approach" to me they seem like opposites.

Mr. Waydowm,
I will try to be clearer (even in my concise way).
Firstly, i believe you are earnestly tryin' to recover and may God bless you in that and in all your endeavors.
Secondly, when i said "you are pickin' a fight," I did not say with who; the reason bein' is because I think you are pickin' it with yourself. It seems from us bystanders that you are sittin' on the edge of your seat waitin' for someone to say "surrender," and you will say, "but you gotta fight first." They will say, "Fight," and you will say, "God will take care of it." I am sayin' to take it easy.

I am not your regular 12-stepper, or those that might be classified to be in a cult. Harbeh derachim lefonav. You are on the calls. I don't say "my way or the highway." Heck, i don't even know my way.

I am simply sayin' to calm down and takke it in stride. Don't disect the program and don't disect other ways. You wrote to me privately (maybe here as well) that you are not sure what to do; that is fine, but startin' several threads on similar topics ain't gonna get you closer to the promised land. I don't think.

You are on a good mehalech now; keep it up. Dabble ion your fightin'; keep your ears opened to the steps; follow the Torah, chasidus, poems, vertlach approach as well. Eventually, you'll find where you fit in.

Again, i mean no harm. I probably don't even know the true steps myself. I would probably be called a "bastard-stepper." When i first joined i also didn't understand the mumbo jumbo. I used to spar with Dov, Chesky, Pidaini, Gibbor, Chullent and others on the meanin' of surrender and powerless and ver veist vas.

I'm hopin' i'm comin' thru.

Continue truckin' whatever da Hell highway you are on, for you are certainly on a four-lane speedway headin' in da right direction, not a one-lane dirt road someplace in Cheyenne headin' to Tuscaloona.

b'hatzlachah