Welcome back.
Maybe you can shed light on the ultimate question?
Where have all you guys been hiding out? Is there really a secret forum? (I know they probably let you back here for one post to pretend that there is nothing to all the rumors)

Just thought I'de add this advice bc I didnt see it mentioned. When I used to really struggle with showering I would do all of the above, not touch or look at the lower region, count down 5 minute shower etc. and not go in at all if I felt the urge, but the single most effective tool (aside from being clean) was showering with the door unlocked. not open just unlocked. The fear that someone might come in was enough to stop me. The steam would block any view but not enough to give the privacy you /I needed to act out

i had a similar issue, not really shower, but the bathroom. a rebbi told me to try 2 get out as quick as possible. basicallly what i did (i applied it 2 shower b/c i have acted out there, i wouldn't say it was an issue though) is think in my mind, "get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out" it occupied my mind and got me out quicker, i kinda went on autopilot 1) shampoo 2) soap 3) wash off 4) dry up and 5) GET THE (BLANK) OUTTA HERE!.

Sometimes i sing in the shower and for m it's a great distraction from other thoughts. Just dont sing like you're trying out for American Idol.

Secret forum? I just took a break from the forum (I don't know why, but it was a mistake), and now I'm back. Btw I'm loving all the great advice. Singing in the shower? Genius.

I also found that a short shower where you get wet, wash yourself , rinse and get out, towel yourself dry as soon as possible works. For those of us like myself who read in the bathroom-read something secular that can't even remotely be considered a trigger.

Darn it! I was reminded today just how dangerous a shower could be. B"H I didn't fall, but I came close. In case it hasn't been mentioned, taking a more cold shower also helps, but make it colder still if you see temptation arising. And ditto to the speed of the whole shower process, from unclothing to re-clothing you gotta make it as fast as possible.

I don't know if this is the case by any of you, but for me, if I'm in a "clean" state, then any shower is okay, and if not, then I'll find a way...

Just be careful to not lose your guard. I too didnt have an issue with the shower till randomly a few days ago. Just be careful

shomer bro wrote:


Wow. For you, being alone with yourself naked is such a powerful experience. It means a lot and seems to affect you so much that it changes your behavior, nekudas habechira, and frame of mind. It does not need to be that way

Please allow me the chance to restate what you wrote here, chaver. I have not read your whole thread about showering, but think I get the gist of it so far. So please consider what I wrote here as simply and honestly as it is meant:

When you say that 'showers are dangerous', what you really mean is that it is dangerous for you to be alone with yourself naked. You are making the shower and the act of showering your 'straw man' (as Rav Noach Weinberg zt"l would put it). It is not the shower nor showering that is dangerous - it is your being alone with your own exposed penis that is dangerous to you. I think that's gotta be made clear from the outset if you want to get anywhere, and there is no shame or nivul peh with that honesty. It is

Interestingly, Dovid haMelech a"h was alone with his penis and noticed that it was a great nechoma to him. His bris was precious to him. Funny how other men react to things and how different we react to the same things. That was not just because he was so holy...rather, first and foremost, it was because he was not screwed up the way we are! He did not put his naked body (or his privates) on an erotic pedestal. They were not a huge, evil monster to him. They just were there - as they are for many, many normal non-addicted people out there. And he appreciated it for what it was...which enabled him to take it all to the holy place that he alone could do. But normalcy came first - not as a result of kedusha. Derech Eretz Kodma taTorah, again.

It has little to do with holiness and a much to do with being simple and natural.

Now, we will still never be like him with regard to kedusha, but our naked bodies do not have to be an electrified, powerful, scary thing to us. Porn made it that way, sex industry made it that way...but most of all, our own imaginations made it that way.

We really cannot blame it on the shiksas, the internet, 'the goyim', billboards, or anybody. We turned girls into goddesses that 'must be tznius or we might explode' and it was we who turned own privates into toys for erotica. Somewhere along the line, you (we) made the shower into a secret porn booth where anything goes and where fantasy is meant to come alive, like some sort of show - "Look! I'm naked in here!" - crazy, no? We are just taking a friggin shower! But we twisted the shower (and being naked) into what they are not. That's not what they naturally are, even for (non-addicted) goyim. We are the problem.

And the truth is always OK to admit. Actually, it's quite nice! No matter how ugly the simple truth is, the lies are always worse...



That's where it's gotta start. Otherwise you are fighting the wrong enemy. Like hitting the stick that's beating us instead of the guy wielding it! (Rav Elchonon in Ikv'so diM'cshicho)

The existence of hormones and feeling desire are not the same as addiction to erotic fantasy or habitual masturbation. They are two completely different planets, actually. First thongs first. Patience...

So the first thing I wish to ask you to consider, before you get even more fired up to battle against this imposing and tempting nakedness that you encounter in the shower....is to start the very first beginnings of getting real, and shrink it all down to size. It's OK and normal to be naked in the shower and to feel some desire. Quit making such a big deal about it. Relax.

Lema'aseh, this means:

Respect your own tendency to indeed make your penis something it is not and to engage in fantasy - but quit being so afraid of it. For the more you run from it like you are on fire, the worse you will get burned.

Make any sense?

You're right that it's more of an issue of being naked. It's just that the shower is one of the only times that that happens for a period of time thats longer than a minute or two. Also the water can be a trigger when its a certain temperature, etc. It becomes a place of nisayon, so i try to get away asap.

Perhaps read Dov's post again.
there's good stuff there.

b'hatzlachah

If being naked turns us on that much, then being naked is way too much of a big deal. Same thing re women in the street, same thing re lots of stuff. We blow things out of proportion, often using halocha, mussar and chassidus to create a monster out of it.

Opening up about it clearly and explicitly with the right, safe people, kills the monster. We are as sick as our secrets. Find a real person, tho - this does not really work well on the phone - and it's silly to think it will work here on the forum with virtual people and when you (and many of them here) are using a fake name.

You will see tremendous change if you open up clearly and explicitly without shame, to the right person about your problem. A person does not have to have terminal cancer to get treatment. Opening up to someone about this stuff will not mean to them that you are a wacked out pervert. It will just mean you are honest...and it will work.

Hatzlocha.

Dov
This is GOLD!!!!! Thank you sooo much Dov. I always thought everyone else is screwed up in the head, not me. Me? Oh come on? How i could i be screwed up? I'm Mr. dms (1234). I am all that!!!!! WRONG! thanks for screwing my head back on!

Dov
Hehe. Dov said: "Relax!" Can i add "take a deep breath, smile and thank God that everything is going to be alright?"

Oh, most definitely.