Dear Zev

If your intention was just to inspire us that you have beaten this addiction for the long term, thank you. I appreciate the inspiration.

However, when you say you did not intend to criticize the 12 steps, if you look back at your 2nd or 3rd post you will see you did just that.

You instead offered your own 4 step program (which is very similar to the 12 steps in at least 3 of the steps) (Which leads me to believe that you never even read the 12 steps you are criticizing).  Putting everything aside and as you yourself noted, if I have to choose between a program that has already helped thousands or more, or a program that has helped Zev, I'll take my chances with the former.

But since you say that criticizing was never your intent I'll just thank you for inspiring words.

Dear Zev, I believe you. No need to call me (although I'd love to hear from you!)

You seem to have gone through a lot and have a lot to share, and we are grateful that you have come to our forum to inspire us!

(Wow. After all that despair in your post, I was so relieved to read that someone DID end up marrying you 15 years ago. B"H!!  :D)

Of-course the 12-Steps were much less known 20 years ago, and there wasn't even an idea of suing the 12-Steps for lust addiction until about that time... So it's truly inspiring to hear how you broke free through sheer will-power and determination to "fix yourself". Please share with us as much as you can; we are all thirsty to hear tips from those who have been there and found a way out, no matter HOW they did it! GYE has no agenda to push the 12-Steps. We are only concerned that people don't "bash it" over here, as you clearly understand.

Please keep sharing... Perhaps you can show us, step by step, what attitudes you used and developed over time to help you stay clean.

For one, you wrote that you developed an attitude that “I can become a person that does not have these struggles”. Wow. How did you come to believe this so deeply?

Rage, thanks for that interesting analysis on the steps. It clarifies some things...

censored wrote on 31 Aug 2011 14:15:


Perfectly encapsulated!!!

I second that!

censored wrote on 31 Aug 2011 14:15:


Interestingly put... So I assume you're saying the steps are just procedural?

Posting moved to new more appropriate forum. Wishing you much hatzlacha and beracha on life in recovery.

Which is the lucky forum that got you?

Reb Zev, I am sorry that there was a misunderstanding regarding another user who kept finding creative ways to bash the 12-Step program. I made a mistake thinking he was you. But once I realized my mistake, I also realized what a tremendous source of chizuk you can be to our website. Having broken free of this addiction with a lot of pain and hard work, you must have learned a lot - and grown tremendously. I feel bad that you want to leave, and I am a little confused as to why you think your posts are not relevant or beneficial for the users of this site. The 12-Steps is not for everyone, and your chizuk and guidance can help many yidden learn to follow your path. If anything, I should delete MY posts, which questioned your sincerity. I truly apologize, and I ask you to reconsider staying on and giving chizuk, advice and guidance to the precious yidden of our forum. Having 17 years of cleanliness through hard work, you are a GIANT to us here on GYE. Please don't leave.