Blind Beggar wrote on 18 Dec 2011 05:59:


I love you, Dov.
I would help every goy that I see suffering and I have spent less than 24 hours of my life viewing porn.
If I see a chareidi woman, litvish or chassidish or sefardit; modern orthodox, datit, conservative or reform; or a gentile woman white, black or Chinese, and she does not appear to be suffering and the only thing she is doing is turning me on whether deliberately or because I am wired that way and I try to pray for her not to get stuck in traffic tomorrow it is a prayer with no feeling and it does nothing for me.

dov wrote on 18 Dec 2011 13:03:


no oofense Dov, I love you too, and i know you love me. You don't need to apologise for this one either, but....
            but... halacha comes before Derech Eretz, just try fullfiling it like a mench. The morons who let her burn to death are stupid for twofold.    1. פיקוח נפש is mechayeiv them to save her.    2.There is a term for them in halacha, a חסיד שוטה (no pun intended). Thus my fine choice of words

Don't euligise the poor soul for having compation beyind the will of G-D, he must be rolling in his grave! Whatever his choice  of wording, the man wouldn't base his entire suture of avodas hashem and ameilus hatorah on HUMANITARIAN PRINCIPALS. If the halacha didn't require those bystanders to intervene, as it did, he wouldn't have left his chasidus.

NICE PEOPLE CAN MAKE STUPID PEOPLE. There is חכמה and there is אמת. Anyone can atain חכמה, but that doesn't mean he applied it corectly to the circumstances. משאין כן תורה גופה שהיא חכמה אלוקית ואמת מוחלת. halacha will always be the correct and true application on חכמה, drech eretz too.


Although I am sure this is what you meant, and this misunderstanding only results if you take this story out of context (agav I only read the first half of your post to BB)

There was a raffle in my shul last night, and the prize was quite sizable, and so was the entry ticket. I left before they announced the winner, so this morning someone texted me the winner's name and IT WASN'T ME!
I immediately felt resentment towards the person who one, towards the Rabbi who made me spent money on the ticket etc etc
Then I checked my attitude, and once I realized how immature it was, and plain stupid, I said outloud (I was in my car alone): Hashem, You made the right choice by letting this very deserving individual win. That felt so fake, that I had to say it again. That didn't sound any more sincere than the first time, either. But guess what? My resentment was gone (to a certain degree) nonetheless and I am now (almost) happy for this guy.
That's all I got on the subject at hand. Thanks for listening.

OM - Now yer talkin! That's what my life in recovery looks like to me, too.

Neshoma lost in a goofy guf somewhere - You did not know Rav Weinberg zt"l. What he became created AISH HaTorah - as his older brother, he talk Rav Noach zt"l everything he knew, and then some. He spoke often about how the Torah is gezeiros (gm' Brachos on "al kan tzipor yagi'u rachamecha") and about how our morals - as informed Jews - ought be determined by nothing else but Torah, cuz only G-d defines what's right....but this ma'aseh still happened to him. He saw that those Jews he was with were not applying Torah. He saw that it was because their personal morals (they'd call it minhag, midos, tzniyus, or "yir'as Shomayim" - "religious sensibilities") got in the way of Torah (Hashem's Will). Minhag trumped Torah. That is what bothered him - that Jews could act as non-Jews, and blame yiddishkeit for it. 

So we agree, really. No?

That feels so nice.

BB - Hey, can you read da Inglish langwach, bruva? I said I was not asking you to pray for women or for anybody else (but could you still pray for me, please?). All I wanted to do was point out how you could care. I think that should you ever decide that you needed to use that tool, you could use imagery to conjure up a scenario of pity for anyone - for we all have tzoros in our lives, R"l, some may be horrible. It's real life.

That's all.

Please daven for me.

Thanks,

Dov

dov wrote on 18 Dec 2011 19:49:

How many non-Jews do you know who would stand around and watch a woman burn to death? How many non-Jews died saving other people on 9-11?

Here's today's chizuk email, a rerun from 1985:
The Medrash says that Pinchas drove his spear straight through the genitals of Zimri and Kuzbi the Midyanite, as they were sinning together. Then G-d gave Pinchas divine strength and he was able to lift both of their their dead bodies up out of the tent, while still on the spear, for all to see that they had been killed for their sins.

The Holy Ohr Hachaim Hakodesh writes, that through doing this, Pinchas made the sin of illicit relations look disgusting in the eyes of the Yidden and thereby caused a tremendous Kiddush Hashem.

On a similar note, the Ohr Hachayim writes as well in another place, that after the Midyanites brought the Jews to sin in illicit relations, G-d commanded the Jews "Tzror es Hamidyanim Ve'hikesem Osam" - meaning, "Make the Midyanim hated in your eyes and destroy everything of theirs". So the Ohr Hachayim asks, why do we need to hate them and destroy everything, why not be able to benefit at least from the booty of the enemy? Answers the ohr Hachayim, that when it comes to immoral sexual conduct (that the Midyanites caused the Jews to sin in), the only way for the Jews to receive G-d's forgiveness and atone properly would be if they turn their hearts to hate these sins, and destroy all that is related to it. For as long as the lust of the sin remains alive in a Jew's heart, he cannot properly atone for sins of this nature. Instead, he must try to first arouse a disgust and hatred of these sins in his heart - and only then he can achieve a true Teshuvah.

Ad kan leshono

Now, I agree porn and prostitution are hateful and disgusting but what is so bad about two consenting adults, one of them young and beautiful and one of them me? I guess that's our avoda according to the Ohr Hachaim but it is still easier said than done.

Any suggestions?

Blind Beggar wrote on 21 Dec 2011 10:42:

Ask your wife ;D.

rebbe BB,
i submit that we are far from being objective observers to the question of whether prostitution is 'right'. so asking the wife might be a better bet...
i also submit that if were to wake YOU up at 4am and ask you if you suggest i go visit a brothel you would say "are you crazy?"

Blind Beggar wrote on 21 Dec 2011 10:42:


Are you asking for theory or drosho purposes, or moral purposes? Or are you asking why Hashem would really not want this for you?

If it is the latter, then the answer is simple:

Go right ahead. Who will try stop you? Sure there are bleeding heart frummies who will beg you not to give up on your beautiful neshomah, etc....but you and I both know that is silly talk. Inspiration and morals only go so far (not very), for an addict.

If having sex with pretty women when you want to works well for you, then mah tov umah no'im. But if you are an addict, then no acting out will ever work for you. For you cannot enjoy and control it the way a normal person can. It will control you, and your life will be a mess. That's all there is to it.

Hashem wants better than a ruined and crazy double life for His children - be they His Yidden, or His goyim.

In the end of the matter, I am not sober because "I should be", but because I need to be. There are frum yidden (and goyim) who can afford to masturbate and even see prostitutes once in a while - yes there are. And there are some who cannot. The ones who are addicts cannot. The ones who are not - but just have a Y"H as everyone else does - sometimes can.

When I say they "can afford it", I do not mean that I condone it (but who cares what I condone?). I mean they can get away with it and still keep their lives. Whatever it does to their neshomas, there are no tangible consequences - so it does not ruin their lives, period.

Remember, before he died, Rabban Yochanan ben Zakai blessed his talmidim (and they were tannaim or tannaim in training!) that they should hope for as much fear of Heaven as they have of people. Gevalt! He blessed them with the awareness that we are all somwhat less sincere than we'd like to believe we are. We all say "ubilvad shelo yir'ani odom!"...while we have our noses in sifrei yir'ah....we are missing the boat.

Boat-missers can survive as regular people, even regular frum yidden. But one who is an addict (whether Jew or not) cannot survive. Their lives get reduced to an unacceptable mess. They have to recover, eventually.

So we addicts are possibly the most fortunate group of all His people in the world.

That's my peace on your question, and thanks for asking.

Blind Beggar wrote on 21 Dec 2011 10:42:


I actually meant what is so bad about thinking and lusting, not actually acting out with a woman. I don't find that to be as disgusting as the Ohr Hachaim would want me to. Dov's answer is still great anyway!

No, no, no. You are misunderstanding the Ohr haChayim haKadosh's intention, I think. What Pinchas did in order to make the inappropriate sex act disgusting to Yidden was: to spear then through their privates. If showing them two people having sex would actually disgust them because of the profanity of the issur, then he'd not need to show it to such kadosh people in the first place!

Ella what:

The bloody mess this made was the disgusting thing, not the "sex act". Normal people cannot be expected to be truly disgusted by seeing a sex act - Pinchas was not a fool. He knew that parading two nudes around in that 'situation' would definitely be a great michshol to many - but the point was that they were
1- screaming their heads off in horror,
2- dying,
3- a disgusting bloody mess.

He knew how the mind works:

My neighbor (at about age 6) fell on the stairs once onto his face and busted his nose wide open. He came into the house screaming and bleeding while his mom was baking delicious vanilla cookies. Ever since he just found those cookies disgusting. His body revolted at their smell.

Pinchas grabbed the golden opportunity to show sex in it's inglory.  Dying bloody mess + innapropriate sex act = the fun is taken out of it a bit.

dov wrote on 22 Dec 2011 17:08:

I guess that's why porn movies don't typically end that way  ;D.

I am going through the Handbook and posting about it on the appropriate thread but no one ever goes there so I am posting the link to my posts there. www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=1898.msg128660#msg128660
I'll know if you went because it says how many visits there have been to each thread.

SARAH IS LEAVING THE COMPANY. NO MORE SARAH. NO MORE FASHION REPORTS.
Only about 10 triggery women left to deal with.

One day at a time.

gibbor120 wrote on 22 Dec 2011 17:11:


Funny, but I actually do not remember ever staying till the end of any of them! So I wouldn't know...