Hi everyone, I'm a 23 year old litveshe bocher learning in a well known, very mainstream and large Yeshiva in E"Y. I have been struggling with this issue for at least eight years (maybe more) to various degrees. Over the years I have tried every eitzah I could possibly think of to help myself (some were quite creative) but non of it lasted long. I used GYE for sometime about a year ago but stopped because the computer I was using was not filtered and was causing more harm than good. Over the past year my addictive behaviors was far far worse than it has ever been before. About 2.5 months ago I met with an expert mechanech who told me that I am a "heavy addict" and I suffer from very high levels of anxiety. He set me up with a therapist who I have not been able to meet with yet for various reasons (hopefully next week I will). I contacted GYE by email and they let me know how to acsess this site which is blocked in the filtered computer kiosks in E"Y (some things are still blocked like the partner program). The aforementioned mechanech told me that I cannot start shidduchim until I am at least 6-8 months sober (at 23 years old that's really tough to take) and I need to use the 12 Step program. Currently I am twelve days clean B"H and I made it 21 days about 2 weeks ago. I would love to hear from people who have any insights about the 12 step program, people who have been clean for longer than I have, and anyone else who can offer any chizzuk, guidence and insight about the difficult journey I face up ahead.

1st of all welcome. Second I just have a few questions. Did he explain why you are considered a “heavy addict”. What about a 6-8 month abstinence will show that you’re ready for shidduchim and does he really understand this whole sugya. These are very black and white claims for example let’s say you white knuckle through 6 months does that make you ready now. Idk something just feels off, maybe I’m wrong.

He is very farmiliar with my personal situation and he is a real proffesional and deals with much craizer cases than mine all of the time. Trust me I am a heavy addict I don't wish to give details on a public forum. 6-8 months is through the 12 step program and therapy if I white knuckle it I will not be acomplishing the goal. Rabbi A. J. Twerski ztz"l explains the diffrence between a dry drunk (white knuckling) and recovery you can see his works in the library also read his book "Teshuvah Through Recovery" it's very helpful.

Welcome, many of us have been told were heavy addicts and recovered through the malachim here.

I'd highly recommend you reach out to Hashem Help Me (michelgelner@gmail.com) and see what he says.

Stick around and learn the ropes, and feel the warmth, wisdom, and help this site has to offer.

Muttel

Can anyone explain to me what this whole Karma thing is and how it works???

azivashacheit101 wrote on 11 Feb 2025 15:46:

Shalom Brother and welcome,

In a nutshell, if you like someone, you can decide to give them a +1 karma.

Once in a while there comes on a user with a really negative, unhelpful, and hurtful attitude, and when it persists, they may get some - karma as an indication that they aren't being received well.

It is whatever you want it to be. Communicating, like your post to RedFaced, is often a more meaningful way to tell someone how you feel (and you can do it privately if that is more appropriate), as opposed to pushing a button, though you can do both. 

Hatzlacha and Kol Tov

Welcome to GYE,

    I would like to preface in saying that I am not contradicting or implying that your Rav is inexperienced. I am just adding my thoughts to what you wrote with little context. Also that I am 22 and definitely get the feeling of not starting shidduchim for a while although i am waiting for other reasons.

    What does 6-8months really mean? There's a big difference between not going back to let's say masturbation for 8 months because that's what you were told works vs actually internalizing getting clean.
     What's the thought process and mindset that needs to be achieved during the time we become clean?
    What's the way we cope without masturbation?
    What is porn masturbation and sex when it comes to assur and mutar?
   How does lust affect me and my connections, others, and eventually my wife and family?
    What is loneliness and how do I cope with it?
   These are questions that really need to be asked and thought about on a constant basis.I'll give my 2 cents on each topic.

    What is becoming clean really about? I'm not talking about how it's assur but what do we really need to do to get free from the clutches of Lust that the y"h uses against us?We need to change our mindset about how we view women as a whole. Truly understand that women are people with feelings and personalities and that they deserve respect as any other person. In short, don't objectify them, humanize them. Yes they are attractive but that shouldn't be our main focus of other people. Just like a person at the register is a person and not just a means of paying for groceries, so to a woman is a person and not just a means of pleasure and lust.

    How each person copes with their challenges is very different because each person has their own unique challenge. But on underlying FACT is that if we use porn or masturbation (or any other form of lust) in response to these issues then what just happened. There was a sense of panic/anxiety/lonliness/tieredness/exhaustion.... and we reacted with masturbation, and got a high from thinking that it would feel good, but what really happened was that we did it, and then we're left empty without true satisfaction. But now our brain has endorphins, but not enough to numb our emotions, and guess what, we still have those emotions but they only resurface once the endorphins run out, which is extremely quick, and we're left with all those feelings from before plus the emptiness and guilt from what we thought would help us. So it doesn't actually help it actually just makes things worse than before.This is the cycle of Lust. Lust kills Love and true Intimacy.
What is true Intimacy? Some people think that Intimacy is sex but that is a misconception. I won't go into what Intimacy is but I will explain that when we think of sex as the fake thing we see in porn then it makes it into something of pure Lust. Lust is taking totally for yourself and Intimacy is when you give with deep care and trust. Bottom line is that there's no way you can have a healthy relationship with your wife intimately, emotionally, and sexually when in the grasps of Lust and just taking for yourself. (Sex in marriage is a celebration of your Love and Connection and deepens your connection to each other with the proper mindset.)

    As I'm sure you know, the way we live with porn, masturbation... is a way of a double life. We can't truly live as one person when nobody knows our deepest secret. The connections we have with others are tainted by our mind, always worrying someone will find out what we really are, or that they don't really know me and would never accept me if they did. When we think like this we can't feel like we are genuine and that makes us hold back from fully investing in a relationship. This is even more crucial when it comes to marriage because a true happy marriage needs a level of trust and how can we give our wives the proper trust and respect they deserve when we don't even give it to ourselves. It's extremely liberating to step away from Lust and truly be yourself.

    How do we accept the fact that we are lonely? For me I remind myself that I am working on myself to be the best husband and father I can be. We need to accept that we don't know what experiences we need to have, the people we need to meet, and what challenges we need to face in order to become the person we need for ourselves and our future families.

    How to deal with fantasies is also extremely important and takes time to internalize. When we get fantasies we can't play them out or force them away bc thi gives them too much acknowledgement. The only thing that should be done is acknowledge that its there briefly and just make sure not to play it out. Same goes with when we see women in our daily lives. When walking the streets know that a glance as a reaction is normal human behavior but if we linger or look again then that's on us. Basic shmiras einayim may not seem to big of a deal but that's because we don't realize how desensitized we actually are.

    This is a long post and it could be way longer. As others suggested I would reach out with HHM who can be clearer and more concise than I. I also highly recomend the Dov's Talks shiurim in the GYE audio library by Dov which are very blunt and refreshing with a clear perspective on how to veiw this nisoyon.
    These ideas can't be internalized instantly and I would recomend thinking about them and definitely asking questions, I'll try to answer and I'm sure others can, when I'm available as I didn't write this in one sitting.This nisoyon can be beaten but we have to take it One Day At A Time and not focus on how daunting of a task it is. It's never easy but it gets easier.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

jewizard21 wrote on 12 Feb 2025 03:31:

So sorry bit I was getting dizzy . I randomly through in some spaces and paragraph breaks , please forgive me if it takes away from the gist of your post

jewizard21 wrote on 12 Feb 2025 03:31:

Thank You so much for taking the time out to write so much it was very helpful, I plan to speak to my Rebbe more and clarify many things. Dov's talks are alot to internalize I hope whatever path I take leads me to true freedom and avodas Hashem

Y don't you speak to hhm.  sometimes relying on 1 rebi is not always so helpful{although sometimes its the only way, rely on a rebi and stick to what he sez no matter what]     every person on this forum struggled and has a insider view that those that didn't struggle don't necessarily have.    speak to the expert's here hear what they have to say then compare it with your rebis advise.  maybe their not contradictions.   but you'll only know if you try. good luck brother

Hey everyone,
I was wondering if anyone can give me any insight or just share similar experiances to the following problem. I am 23 years old and have struggled with lust from at least age 14 probably younger, but from age 12- 20 (at least) I had a parallel addiction which is clearly connected to the root of the problem. This other addiction is a "chein addiction" this means that for years I was obssesive about good looking and charming bochurim who were with me in Yeshiva. Although many times I did think of them in a lusful way, a vast majority of the time I just wanted to be close to them /hang out friends ect. (Spoiler it never happened because I was always highly intimidated by anyone I was obsessed with.) I would constantely try to end up near them, watching them, walking by their houses during bein hazmanim hoping to bump into them ect. It took me a while to see that this was crazy and something is wrong with me, because it started at age 12 (and possibly at 9 years old) I never knew anything different. Although I do still struggle with this slightly, my main problem is now with lust. I did notice a direct connection between the lust acting out getting much worse around the time that the chein addiction got lighter. (one of the guys I was utterly obsessed with left the yeshiva I was in and over the next few years the whole addiction to all of it largely toned down though Idk if it may rear it's ugly head again at some future date.) 
If anyone has anything useful to share ( and also unuseful things) I'd love to hear it.
Thank You

azivashacheit101 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 15:26:

Hey! I do not know if you will find this useful, but just to share...I know exactly what you mean. I struggled mightily with this too. Stalking, obsessing (hmmm, other embarrassing things too...) about certain types of guys all throughout my yeshivah years, straight until I got married. 

I was convinced that I was gay. There's a lot of inner angst to be suffering in silence, not understanding how to deal with all that inner shame and turmoil.

Thankfully, after marriage this all dissipated. 

Only to get replaced by roaring lust for good 'ole women!

My thoughts about all of this in hindsight, is that my attraction to certain guys was definitely lust-centered. These were the guys that I fantasised about, it never was not about fantasy, for me. 

And since we are very much isolated from girls in our system, my lust had no manifestation other than with guys. All very normal and way more common than you would imagine. 

Obviously, this issue is waaaay more intense if you're dealing with "addict level" lust challenges. If you're deeply and addictively stuck in the mire (how one ends up there is a different topic) it just makes this really intense and all-encompassing. 

How are you today, are you over it?

Hey Padfoot, thanks for the response,
Though some of the time it was defenitly lustful I belive most of the time it wasn't (when I was young I at times davened to be friends w/ thease guys [until I matured a little and realized I should daven for ruchiyus] and I would never daven to gain lust). Thease days I notice the charm in people, but it doesn't take over my life (lust does). I think guys loose alot of the charm as they hit their twenties and guys more than a year or two younger than me never intrested me. I belive some of it is lust related but a big portion of it is a diifrent drug in the addiction and not lust.
I hope you stayed human long enough to read this...and now you can transform back into a dog and keep away from those dementors!

azivashacheit101 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 16:09:

Some say he died. Codswallop, in my opinion. Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die

azivashacheit101 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 16:09:

The avatar image may be misleading…I am not Padfoot.

I am Lord Voldemort, all powerful, dangerously deadly and practically immortal. 

I hear what you are saying, and you mentioned this as well in your first post. I guess what I am trying to convey is that for me, although there was an emotional aspect to it as well, I do feel that in my case, it was rooted in lust. Everything else around that such as wanting to be friends with them, etc., was just a side thing, I think deep down I wanted nothing more than the fantasy. 

This can be the case for you too, but if you feel otherwise, that is absolutely and entirely possible! In that case, there may indeed be some other root cause that I am not familiar with, and will defer to other people. 

One question: you mentioned that you believe it is another “drug of the addiction” and not necessarily lust…To my understanding, lust addiction is all about being addicted to the “dopamine high” that lustful stuff causes. Can you elaborate what you mean? What other addiction or drug are you referring to? Am I misunderstanding you?