Hi all, 

I'm a mid-twenties bochur. I started watching porn with m at around 19, trying basically since then to stop. My best time was a little over five months (was in yeshiva and basically didn't have access, also didn't m so that's cool. This broke when I got back home). I've been lurking for a little bit (about a month or something) this is my first time posting. I thought I wouldn't need to post (just fell yesterday after being clean since Tisha Bav, [always tell myself, "ok , after {insert significant date} I'll be clean for good] but looks like I was wrong. 

A big issue I face (besides for porn itself) is the fear and resentment I experience after I fall. Please feel free to correct me, but the way I understand it is that I'll either be punished here or in the Next World, and the best I can hope for is being punished here so I can get more Olam Haba, I don't know how teshuva factors in: is it like I never did the sin or does teshuva make it that instead of being punished in Olam Haba I get kapara here? Also even if I have that answer, something that adds to the frustration is how do I even know if my teshuva was mikabel?

Basically all this amounts to me, after falling, walking around with this fear that "Ok great, this is how Gd is gonna get me after what I did". Like for example, let's say I watch p and then I have a flight the next day, it'll probably cross my mind that maybe the flight will go down or something. Or maybe if I'm slated to give a speech, daven for the amud, or go to some social thing, I'll be nervous that Gd will make me mess up somehow or send a shliach to embarrass me so I can get kaparah so I can get more Olam Haba (that's assuming that I like learned a bunch or something so I reason that I deserve kaparah as opposed to just losing some Olam Haba). A big example of this is that I have a semi-major operation coming up and I'm afraid that I've lowered my chances of a successful operation/recovery because I watched so much p recently. (I'm not completely gripped or convinced by this fear, like I'm able to question it, but it is definitely convincing enough to cause distress). Edit to include another way this manifests: Dating. Every time I fall I'm like, "ok, now there's no way I'm gonna get a good girl". Again, not totally taken by this fear, I know on some level its yetzer hara, but is still very bothersome. 

Walking around like this and having this mentality is exhausting and makes me resent Gd. A lot of times it makes me think, "Why don't I just give it up and indulge? Why do I subject myself to this game of cat and mouse? I know people who were religious, and based on rational arguments , are now completely OTD and do whatever they want, why don't I just join them?"

I've heard the answer that its not a game of cat and mouse, and that Gd is not out to get us, rather Gd has provided us with a gym where we're given the opportunity to become ubermenschen, but its not easy to inculcate this answer on an emotional (and therefore day to day) level. I also know that if I did just give it all up and did whatever I wanted I'd be miserable (one reason being the guilt, which itself becomes another source of resenting Gd [You put this guilt in me!] ). I think I've pretty much ultimately concluded in a resigned way that Judaism is my best bet at a great life, I just resent the fact that it is. 

Looking for support and a healthier way of understanding Judaism. 

Also I have OCD so there's that

Sincerely, 

[my current username]

radiantfox67 wrote on 27 Aug 2024 22:04:

I dont feel like I'm capable right now of a long drawn out answer. 

That being said I can tell you with a very strong measure of confidence, that there are many porn watchers out there, who are successful business men, good speakers, healthy people, with a great wife ( was gonna write great wives - But  I didn't want to get YKW started on that) etc..

This is not the way Hashem does things that when someone is bad he zaps them with a lightning bolt.

In response to your teshuva question, I believe its been written a number of times Bshem the Rambam , That when you are in the exact  set of circumstances as you were when you used to fall , and you overcome the Nisayon- that's how you know you did a complete teshuva

Hey, welcome.
Sounds like you can use a hug!

There’s a lot to unpack in your post and a lot to address.

I want to focus on one incredibly important point.

If the only reason you want to stop watching porn and masturbating is because you know it’s wrong and you don’t want to get zapped by Hashem, here or in the next world, then you have a problem, because those are only NEGATIVE reasons: “I can’t do it even though I really want to, because it’s not worth the cost”.

This kind of thinking is very hard to translate into motivation.

Motivation works better if you have a POSITIVE reason to WANT a lifestyle that is free of this stuff. To feel that your life will actually be better if you aren’t chained by the shackles of lust, being pulled into sweaty, hazy frenzies of lusting.

Do you think Hashem tells us not to engage in this stuff so he can punish us when we step over the line? Or maybe the truth is the He knows that life is better without it, and He wants us to live a life that is wide open and free as a heartbreakingly blue sky?

Just a premilimany thought, friend.

Here’s a warm hand, chaver.

This battle is easier when you’re with friends. There’s a lot to learn here. You CAN break free.

There’s hope here in GYE,

Stick around and read some threads , glad to have you on board!

Chaim Oigen

First of all, WOW you are a tzadik just for seeking ways to help yourself with an issue thousands of fellow jews struggle with,
Its not easy to face yourself and seek help, but look you are here...

I would encourage you to read "The battle of the generation" book, it will help you set the correct prospective on the tremendous nisoyen / opportunity to achieve greatness you have...

Welcome!

Please don't beat yourself up! There are many many yidden struggling with the exact same struggles as you. Just because you fall doesnt make you a bad person who's ro'uy for a punishment. Just the opposite, the tzaar you have after an aveira is very precious to Hashem and plays a big role in the kappara.

Look at קריינא דאיגרתא חלק א אות יא - יז for an amazing perspective on the struggle and of not being me'yaeish. Specifically אות י"ב. once after a fall, I was feeling really down, a lot of similar feelings to you and I opened the sefer and happened to see that shtikel, it hit me so deep it just made me cry

Hi & welcome to the GYE family!
Thank you for your great post... You once had 5 months clean? That's amazing! I hope you realise that it takes real Gevura to achieve that - you definitely have it in you!
Re your fears and resentment... please let me reassure that it's all very normal. There is nothing wrong with you. You're a great guy and just need to understand where these thoughts are coming from. As you yourself wrote, it's coming from the Yetzer Hara! He is trying very hard to get you to give up!
And I can proof this to you from your own words: you said you sometimes resent Hashem so much, you feel like just giving it all up and joining your OTD friends... now hang on, if you really believe that Hashem is going to ruin your life, then what will it help for you to escape and to ditch it all??? All the more so that you'll be in trouble!! So it's just one of the very mean techniques of the YH to get you to despair. It's a מחשבה זרה which is best to be ignored.

Just remember 2 points:
1. Hashem doesn't just love you, he loves you to bits! Like a father who loves his son, no matter what he's done.. I can tell you as a father of 5 children that whatever my son does I will always be here to help him get back up, to make sure he can succeed in life and to get him the BEST Shidduch! I would never ever send someone to go and botch up his public speech or to confuse him when he's at the Omud. That would be mean. It's not what a father does. אבינו אב הרחמן is not looking to punish you. Period. (To understand when עונש does happen, is a shmooze far zich, after a fall is not the time to think about that.)
2. It's not your fault. Hashem himself has given you and all of us these Nisyonos. At times it's very difficult but eventually you will reach sobriety and greatness. As חז”ל say: אין הקב”ה בא בטרוניא עם בריותיו, meaning, Hashem knows full well what us human beings are going through and he isn't trying to pick on us. He only wants us to try our real best. He doesn't need perfection - for that he's got his Malochim. 

It took me a few years to realize that Judaism is the most beautiful life style. דרכיה דרכי נועם. Not always easy, but pleasant. If you're resenting it its a sign that you need to read the book "The battle of the Generation" & perhaps "A Ben Torah for life" to get the correct perspective.

Once again, all of the thoughts that you've described so well, are very normal. I also experienced this frustration and pain and I also wanted to ditch it all, see my posts "I'm fed up" & "I'm drowning".

Wishing you tremendous Hatzlacha and I'm looking forward to hearing from you!
UpAndDown.

radiantfox67 wrote on 27 Aug 2024 22:04:

Wow, thats really a lot. Do you have any level headed rebbeim/mentors to talk to about this? Ive had similar issues and even (eons ago) sorta started a thread about it. I really feel for you and everything you said resonates with me. I have spent years searching for answers about this topic. I can and would love to share that which I have learned. Its too long for this forum. Please pm me.

Hi @radiantfox I love your post, great questions! 

I spoke to my (frum) therapist about such worries I had in my personal life. Not simple. 

Rav Pam says that Yazkir lo Yom hamisa is the last option, in the Gemara about how to fend off the yh, because we are not supposed to live like that, constantly thinking about morbidity etc.

May you have much hatzlacha in working through this and treating ocd.

Have a great Shabbos!

You are such an amazing Jew that you recognize this is not healthy and you want to still connect to Hashem! My mesora is that guilt is a result of assimilation from Catholicism. You can feel charata--you regret doing that--but move on! The OCD may make this very difficult, and you should get help with that (even pharmaceutical) if necessary, but Hashem wants you to keep fighting-He does not want us living in fear. I have often wondered if I am being punished, and I asked my Rebbe outright--and he promptly said that there is no benefit in avodas Hashem to thinking about it. Focus on building a relationship. I recommend "The Connections Paradigm" as a book that has helped me really be able to forgive myself and move on with my avodah.

radiantfox67 wrote on 27 Aug 2024 22:04:

No reason to resent Hashem. The main thing to realize is that you are not alone. Those that are here are all struggling, some more some less. Over time if you follow the  tools it will get easier. Try reaching out to Michel or another mentor.

A little late to the party here, great posts!

To echo R' Chaimoigen's point, Hashem isn't giving us rules to be able to zap us when we don't keep them. He's not a power-hungry counselor, teacher, older sibling, code officer, cop, etc etc that gets a head rush when punishing a squirming, pale, ashamed victim.....

Seeing what pornography does(n't do) for you and feeling the pride of victory over the damned Yetzer Hora (I love him for the reward he brings me! but that's for another discussion). Understanding how to cut off triggers and how to minimize our battle (I posted about it here guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/413043-My-ENTIRE-story?limit=15&start=135#416074). Understanding that the opposite of addiction is connection. These are tools that help you win The Battle of the Generation!!


You absolutely can win and win big!!!!!!!!  

Hang on brother and feel free to reach out,
Muttel

I will just say that for someone with anxiety telling someone not to think about something or thats just not how it is, doesn't work. We have to really understand whats being said, meaning that Hashem loves us and isnt out to punsih is etc., on a deeper level. Otherwise we just revert back to it the second we are triggered. I may have some things that can help you out on your journey. Again you can pm me or email me at haragra14@gmail.com

bright wrote on 01 Sep 2024 14:09:

So what do you suggest. How would you deal with triggers or urges

I

I dealt with many of my own triggers in therapy, but I also had to gain a deeper understanding of Hashem, yiddeshkeit and our place in the world. If you dont have that than its not really a trigger, its what you actually believe, you just aren't thinking about it right now, so it may not trigger you this second. I believe I have some insight that I can give in regards to a person who needs to go on such a path, but its not really for the forum so anyone who wishes to discuss it can email me. With regards to the triggers themselves I can really only say what worked for me. But again I think the first thing to get straight is our beliefs.