It’s normal. For me it was helpful to stop those feelings by increasing my passion to do something  (small) positive every time those feelings tried to get into my head.

Can you give an example of what you mean?

I definitely can not relate (yet, hopefully soon) to what you speak of.
All I will say is ASHRECHA! that you are zoche to have come to a point where shmiras einayim is 2nd nature!
Give yourself a major hug for your perseverance and upbeat attitude that has brought you to this point!
Better yet, I will give you a hug!
You are amazing and an inspiration to so many!

I concur with Vehkam, I've had these feelings the last month or so (after being 6 months clean). 

Think of the sweetness of victory and ask Hashem for something in the zechus of your vigilance...

KOMT brother!
Muttel

Crossed the street even though my brain was telling me that it's not that bad in front of you, and you have enough self control to stay on this side and not look. 
  I think the fact that I noticed that it wasn't that bad is an indicator that it actually was.

    Also really tough rn, super exhausted but need to keep on chugging a few more hours. Ill be on watch if my brain tries to trick me. Thats why i remembered to post here bc I think it started creeping. BH good so far. Just wish things could be easier and didnt feel so overbearing right now. Tomorrow it may be better though so that's something to look forward to.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

    Saw something last night that was triggering but I'm ok. Trying not to fantasize/focus on the fantasies. I could have avoided it and am kind of kicking myself for putting myself in that situation.
    Luckily it wasn't anything too bad, but it was still triggering and I will do my best not to let it happen again.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

One Day At A Time:pensive:

Really conflicted right now.
    I had a crazy urge for a brief second (few minutes) from a trigger that I hadn't had in a long while. It was the type of thing that I was scared from the fact my brain got triggered by it due to desensitizing myself for years and caused me to start becoming clean.
    I wish things that are supposed to be entertainment didn't have to have all this inappropriate content that's unnecessary bc it doesn't even add to the plot.

    I might need to give up on some forms of entertainment. I don't know if I can all at once but I think I will try. Already twice this winter break I got triggered by things that I remember to have been "clean/not inappropriate"

I wish life was simpler.

Good quote I looked up,
“The ultimate test of a man’s conscience may be his willingness to sacrifice something today for future generations whose words of thanks will not be heard.”-Gaylord Nelson

    I know it will be worth it and that's something that keeps me going. But it sometimes feels like gorilla warfare where I am in enemy territory but think I'm safe for the moment and then just bam. I guess the best thing is to pull my troops out of enemy territory, but I am currently so entrenched that it's a difficult process.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time

Many guys here will attest to the fact that after making some changes which appeared hard to make - like cutting out some forms of entertainment - they gained tremendous menuchas hanefesh, and had no regrets. Hatzlocha buddy.

I agree that the shiduch process presents its own challenges. But being married is the best panacea for shmiras habris. Granted that it is not the sole reason to get married. The threads on the forum testify that there’s a struggle even after marriage. But it definitely is easier with pas besalo. There’s also the antidote to loneliness and the opportunity to build a bayis. 
Putting off shiduchim until I am perfect in this inyan is not rational. Tovim hashnayim min haechad. Lo tov heyos haadam levado. 

livingagain wrote on 23 Jan 2025 16:46:

Shalom Brother,
Respectfully, I would question the implications of much of what you wrote.

If you don't mind elaborating on these points, I think we can have a productive discussion (rather than me . . . soapboxing seems to be the favored term lately).

• What is marriage
• what is shemiras habris
• what is pas besalo
• what is loneliness
• what is building a bayis
• what is perfect

Kol Tov

Hi,
I welcome a dialogue on what I have suggested and maybe others can chime in. But I’m not sure what you are asking for. These terms are self understood. If you take issue with the premise of my position, please say so clearly. 

You say, "If you take issue with the premise of my position", that's what BenHashem is asking, What is your premise?

These are not self understood terms which is why we would like to know how you interpret them. These things have some heavy misconceptions, like people think marriage will cure shmiras habris, its not so simple.

I highly recommend on writing out your answer, not only for our better understanding but yours as well.

I'll also respond in more depth when I have more time.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

It appears that there is a concurrence so I’ll define the terms as I understand them to be. 
marriage the joining of man and woman with Eirusin and kidushin. This is a matter of Halacha under which the hudband undertakes certain responsibilities and acquires certain rights. Within marriage there are also emotional and physical benefits that are part and parcel

shmiras habris not masterbating 

pas besalo having what you need 

loneliness feeling a lack of a companion

building a bayis having children 


perfect  the best possible result 

I believe these are concise and accurate definitions. 

livingagain wrote on 23 Jan 2025 18:56:

Thank you Brother. I'll try to pull out further points to consider for each definition.


What makes you say that the emotional and physical benefits are going to be an automatic deposit after completing the erusin and kidushin transaction?


How will marriage help you stop masturbating? (If you will answer because of sex, that isn't any replacement for masturbating. Many unmarried singles believe that they will transfer their tayva to their wife and alz geet - which is doubly incorrect. A wife is not a kosher masturbation receiver. She is not your personal muttar porn. Nor do you want her to feel like that. I'd say the best barrier holding someone back from working on shemiras habris is thinking that the best solution is something you don't have yet. Try not to compare your nisayon to others - that's inconsequential. This is your challenge and the tools to overcome it are available.


What guarantees that you will be totally satisfied? Pas Besalo is a beneficial side effect of intimacy, not a cure for lust. That's why you've heard many mention that marriage did not fix their struggles. You need to do the internal work, not just relying on external changes.


People feel lonely for various reasons. You may crave a companion to fit with you, to share life with your other half. Some people have self-loneliness, like they want someone else to fill all their holes and voids. Marriage can provide connection, but is there a healthy 'you' there for her to connect to? (Maybe the answer is yes, just something to consider that it's not like marriage = no more loneliness. Many couples unfortunately feel isolation, because there are often differences which are normal but requite work to figure out a balance).


Building a bayis, bezH you should merit to do so, is also not an automatic thing. There are ups and downs, twists and turns, satisfaction and frustration. You really won't know until you get there. Opportunities but no guarantees. 


Should someone not try to be their best possible self in inyanie kedusha before getting married?


It's important to contemplate how these definitions apply to you. Life isn't so easy to define - and that's part of the beauty of it. You aren't buying someone's art. You are having the opportunity to paint your own masterpiece. It will be unique, but it will require learning new skill and figuring out what you want to paint together, because it's a shared canvas.


If anyone would like to interject, reject, elaborate, correct, or anything of the sort, please do. We'll all share the opportunity to learn and grow.

Kol Tov

    Your answers are very concise when it comes to what it says in the dictionary. But what we are trying to get at is how you interpret these terms. Marriage by definition is when a man and a women get married, what you described is how they get marriead, but what happens afterward? What does it mean that they are married? Why get married besides for the halachic reasonings? If there wasn't a halacha to get married you wouldn't?
    "Within marriage there are also emotional and physical benefits that are part and parcel" No, the emotional/ intimate part of marriage is the main part of marriage, the physical which I am assuming you mean as the sexual part of marriage is a part of the intimate part of the relationship. With regards to sex in marriage we as singles think that "once I get married I wont be so drawn by lust to porn and masturbation"  this is wrong but has some truth.
    If we think that sex in marriage will replace our lust then that is extremely wrong and could be detrimental. In marriage there are two people you and your wife. When you use sex to "satiate" your lust then you are just treating her as a sex object and totally disregarding her emotionally and intimately, you are also totally corrupting the kedusha that comes along with this part of your relationship. (for more ask some of the mentors on this site like HashemHelpMe and others because I am not experienced in these matters as I am single)

    Yes shmiras habris is not masturbating, but how do you do that. And NO getting married is not a cure for shmiras habris. The way marriage helps with shmiras habris is when you already have a mindset of being clean and what a true intimate relationship in marriage is and how to obtain that relationship. (The word Intimacy is not being used in replace of the word sex!!) When you have a healthy intimate relationship then a man treasures that intimacy and it helps him overcome the yh because he knows that when he gives in to lust then that is distancing him emotionally and intimately from his wife. Lust Kills Love, Love=Intimacy, therefore Lust kills intimacy.

What is the translation of pas besalo??

    What is loneliness? I looked through some sources online because I have thoughts but never actually looked at what the research is. This is a quote "it’s a reflection of how connected to and supported we feel by others. In other words, feelings of loneliness come from how we perceive our social environment and may not have much to do with how many people we interact with or have available for support." They go on to say that their are many reasons for loneliness but there are three relationships that concern us. These are close family, friends, and a spouse. If one lacks one of these then they can feel loneliness regardless of our connection with the other two. The most significant one in my opinion is the lack in a spouse and I try to deal with it by knowing that she is out there and I am preparing myself to be the best husband for her that she deserves. This way of thinking is actually one of the things that helps me when I struggle with an urge because I know that masturbation and pornography or even just giving into the yh with regards to shmiras einayim is detrimental to me and to my future wife and children. Reaching out to others on this site is also extremely helpful in times of loneliness.

    Building a bayis is something that I haven't thought about as much but I definitely should have. Ill answer now with saying that it is creating a safe and loving environment for my wife, my children, and myself. I want to make sure that I am there for my wife and kids and build a relationship with them filled with trust and love. 

    Now perfect is a dangerous term. Nothing is perfect, but that's only if you think of perfect as everyone else does. Perfect is being normal. Perfect is being able to walk down the street or have a regular conversation with fantasising instinctually. Perfect is knowing that I am trying my best and if I fail then that is okay because I am normal, so I should keep on going because I didn't fail, I got back up and continued being normal. Now normal is also a bit different nowadays and I believe if you are here trying to make yourself a better person then you are extrodanary. 

    If anyone would like me to elaborate on anything or if anyone disagrees or sees flaws in what anything of what I am saying don't hesitate to respond and I will try to respond when I am available.


Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!