Trying99 wrote on 07 Jun 2023 01:53:

I don’t see him saying “keep it a secret”

Rather, similar to what I asked.

“Do you have anyone guiding you.”

Oftentimes the self righteous path one feels might not be the way to (do it) present it. 

People might have different backgrounds that determine how to best go about it. 

It is important to have guidance from people far greater than I.

Heeling wrote on 07 Jun 2023 02:03:

I don't even know where to start on this.

Heeling, I know you, and I know you are a very sensitive person, but sometimes you say things that are just so hurtful!

Please remember that you are posting on the thread of our choshuva freind Zag xx who is a chosson who has an interest in guys and has had sexual encounters with them.

Saying that you therefore deem him inadequate to stand under the chuppah punches to the gut of people who question their self-worth because of SSA.

I am personally offended. I am a bisexual bochur in shidduchim, and I think that I am a very suitable marriage candidate. More so than many heterosexual bochurim that I know. And perhaps some of the maalos that I bring to the table have been cultivated through my struggles with homosexuality.

And from my phone converation today with Zag, I'd venture to say the same about him.

Bh I’m getting guidance from my rabbayim. 

Thanks yitz 

yitz23 wrote on 07 Jun 2023 03:33:

Being bisexual does absolutely not make someone being inadequate to get married, and he can be a great, very great husband too, (as I believe yitz and Zag xx will be beH) there are many amazing and normal people that are SSA, and it does not undermine their capabilities of being in a great relationship.
Sorry Yitz for being hurt, I can't really comment on this because I never felt your feelings, However I do want to point out that Heeling probably did not intend to hurt you, or anyone else struggling with SSA, (as you mentioned he's a sensitive person) But I believe that he was trying to point out, that for a kallah standing under her chuppa, it's the greatest day in her life, and she looks forward for a wonderful relationship with the man standing next to her, she wants the best for him, she is absolutely mad over him... and knowing that her future husband struggles with SSA, without being prepared in the right way, with the guidance of rabbayim etc. it can affect her excitement and give her worries.
Yes its true that we all have problems, none of us are perfect, and yes, before going into marriage, though it seems that the other person is perfect, we know that they are not, and that we will need to deal with their difficulties, However knowing what we will need to deal with before getting into it, can lower the desire to get into the relationship.
So you should definitely follow what your Rabbayim on this course, as its a very sensitive issue, and you want your kallah to be fully confident and ready to get into the relationship.
Sorry if I'm stepping on anyone's feelings, I'm writing this out of good intention.

Mazel tov! Zag xx, may it be a good start to a life full of meaning, happiness, positivity, nachas, love, shefa, bracha and hatzlacha, may hashem be with you along your journey, and help you make the right decisions, and of course give your wife the capability to help you fix your issues, and be a proper עזר כנגדו.

Praying for your success
True self

Hey zag, welcome and a huge Mazal Tov!!  May you have much Simcha and a beautiful life together! You sound like a very intellectual and emotionaly smart guy, you’ll make a great Hubbie!
I don’t post much and definitely not advice to such a question. I am not qualified to, and nor should anybody else, even if they were to be qualified. Your questions and concerns of how to navigate should be addressed to your Rabeyim and therapists that actually know you personally, and not on an anonymous forum.

I can just reiterate what some of the others have said DO NOT Tell your kalah anything without guidance from qualified individuals that know you personally. The consequences can be catastrophic, if not done in the proper time, setting and manner.  

Not because your some sort of creep with a dark dirty secret and blemish that would make any girl say no but rather as heeling said and true self clarified.  (Yitz I know it seemd hurtful what heeling wrote but as a friend that understands this struggle and I believe true self did a good job clarifying what he meant)
Im actually convinced that you are an amazing individual because of your struggles and your self work.
I am saying this, as a fellow friend that has struggled with exact same. Although I wasn’t sexually abused as a child however, in the overall sense, I can relate to everything else.
I understand your struggle and the pain associated with this battle. I had the same concerns during my engagement as well although you seem to be in a much better place than I was at that time with a good Network of people surrounding you.   

All I can share from personal experience is that my attraction to other guys didn’t disappear. What did happen is that it took the edge off that intense craving in pain I’ve had as a teenager and made it much more bearable. 

I can only wish that upon you and God willing it should get even easier for you!

 Please keep your post coming, my sixth sense tells me you have a lot to offer!  

Hi all. Thanks everyone for ur messages and support. Heeling I am absolutely not in the slightest bit offended. I know it’s a very difficult question and any woman would be concerned about. I really hope that any concerns here though would be unjustified, as I hope to step up to the plate and be the best I can be in all my relationships (Kalla, G-D, rabbayim friends, parents and others). I am getting daily advice and help from my rabbayim and others to be the best I can be. One day in the future when I am happily married BEH, I would like to be able to share my past experiences with my wife. I very much hope and believe that she will, understand some of the struggles I’ve been though. No one is perfect, but hopefully we can all reach perfection within ourselves. 

Hi, sorry to hear about your past and your current struggles.
Mazel tov on the upcomin' weddin' God-willin' - you should merit receivin' all the blessin's!

Well-meanin' folks have messaged me to throw my hat into the fire or to take a stand against this guy and his opinion and the other guy and his opinion; that I will not do.

What I would say is: this matter is extremely complicated, and my haughty suggestion would be to seek advice from your Rabbi/mentor/therapist etc., someone who knows you best WHICHEVER way you are leanin'. Meanin' that both paths ahead of you are equally precarious, and only someone who knows you best (and perhaps the kallah) can advise you.

Godspeed to you

yitz23 wrote on 07 Jun 2023 03:33:

I dont have time to read all the back and forth now but I just want to address and clarify what I said I’m my previous messages. The reason I am clarifying this is because I don’t want anyone to feel hurt from anything I wrote as I did not have any such intentions.

The threader put in front of us a unique and delicate situation, to which one of our dear friends responded that he should discuss these things with his Kallah before marriage. To which I responded that should NOT speak to her before marriage, rather he should seek advice from his Rabbeim/therapist to whom says he has a good relationship with.

Trying99 responded with a Q - Would you want him to keep it from his potential wife if she was your sister?

My response - Obsoletely not! Would you want your sister to be standing under the chuppah when she knows that her chossen has interest in males?? and has had relations with them? And advice again that he rather seek advice from his Rabbeim/therapist and not follow the guidance given on an anonymous forum.

1.       Why is my question more offensive than what Trying99 wrote?

2.       The point of my question, wasn’t the question itself, rather it was to throw the ball back at Trying99

3.       The point of my whole post wasn’t the question nor was it to throw the ball back at Trying99. The point was that to make it clear to our dear threader who finds himself in a tough situation, that if he has a good relationship with Rabbeim/therapists he should seek advice from them over us.

I apologize to you Yitz and I apologize to other who find my words offensive.

Have a wonderful day,

Hello, R' Zag and welcome. You have definitely come to the right place. I just read your initial post and the back-and-forth responses and I would like to respond to some of the points raised here. By way of introduction, I want to mention that I was in a very similar situation some time ago and I understand exactly the internal struggle you're going through. I am now happily married for with a large family B'H. So I think I can help put some things in perspective for you. 

1. You can definitely get married and have a healthy, happy relationship with your wife. It will certainly take work, but so does every marriage. 

2. As far as the debate about telling your Kallah, certainly you should consult a Rav or Rebbe that knows you well. But, personally, I would strongly discourage you from saying anything yet. This doesn't mean that you will be keeping this secret from her your whole life (although it may be), it just means that you value your connection with her enough that you don't want to shock her by telling her something that will be too difficult for her to handle. In my experience, I did end up telling my wife, but only after I was completely sure that she would be able to deal with it. I have mentioned previously that there is this false notion out there that in order to have a trusting relationship, a person must disclose to his spouse all his dark secrets. This isn't true. R' Avigdor Miller repeats this many times in his lectures, that a husband and a wife should put on a front for each other, and they should each only see each other in the most positive light.  

3. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet. Your "friendships" with guys who you are attracted to are not good for you (or them), especially with those who you have previously had some sort of sexual encounter with. You are putting yourself in danger by continuing to have a connection to them. Please don't take this the wrong way, it's not my place to give you mussar or to lecture you, I'm just telling you this as a friend who knows exactly what it's like. This can be extremely hard, even excruciating, but I think we both know deep down that if you really want to help yourself, and get your marriage off on the right start, you need to completely cut off contact with them. I'm not saying that it has to be done this second, but it must be a goal of yours. Just imagine that someone told you they were getting married and they're still friendly with a previous girlfriend, but "don't worry, we made up not to do Yichud". I think we all would understand how inappropriate that is. Same here. 

4. We are all here for you on GYE. If I can be of any help, please don't hesitate to reach out. My email is in my signature. Kol Tuv and all the best and Mazel Tov on your upcoming Chasunah.

Thank you monseyyid. It’s reassuring to hear about being able to have a healthy happy relationship whilst having these issues. In terms of friends we’re both in the same yeshiva atm. I get what ur saying but it’s practically impossible to cut someone off when there in front of u. Believe me I’ve tried (with this exact guy) and it didn’t end well. Our relationship went from healthy to sexual to nuclear. As both of us r 2 of the most popular members of the yeshiva there was a period of about 7 months when we weren’t talking at all. The reasons were very complex, but heavily built on the mutual guilt of our relationship. With the help of an intermediary our “normal” relationship slowly repaired. But there is still clearly a sexual tension between us. What do I do?? 

If someone values his connection to his kallah he has to be fully honest with her. There is zero justification for keeping this information from someone who has every right to know this fact about the person they are marrying. I am actually really baffled by the responses here. Do you all think that women are just dumb pieces of property who don't have the right to make their own decisions about what they're getting into? Do you even hear yourselves? 

This is besides for the fact that there are some poskim who have brought up the possibility that by not disclosing this fact, your kiddusin can be considered invalid on the grounds that it's a מקח טעות since the kallah does not know a crucial piece of information regarding the person she's marrying. 

Zag,  I can't imagine how scary this must feel right now but please do not hurt someone by following the advice of the people on this thread. There is no ethical justification for the withholding of such information from someone who is about to commit their entire life to you. Do the right thing and tell her. 

Trying99 I appreciate your advice. I do plan to tell her and to talk about this with her. However I think there is a time and a place for that, and that now is definitely not the right time. 

Trying99 also my rabbayim have all said the same thing, and 2 of them are dayonim who involved in many cases of marriage. Their advice was to wait. 

Trying99 wrote on 07 Jun 2023 20:09:

I haven't seen anyone say to keep this secret from her forever. What I have seen is advice that such a disclosure should only be made after consulting his Rabbi and therapist who actually know him and NOT based on opinions on a secret forum...

I definitely wouldn't take a paskan on the validity of the kidushin base on the very little information provided here.