It's hard to admit that I need to reach out.

I help others. A lot, B"H.
I struggled for years. And Hashem helped me. With unbelievable Siyata Dishmaya I have come light-years from where I once was.
I now inhabit a world of Torah and Kedusha and Avoda.
I am a healer and a rebbe. I have been blessed with deep understanding, I learn and teach a lot, and am Zocheh to guide and inspire. I'm still growing.
..................Mostly.

....except sometimes when I fall.

.......and then I feel sickened and then I work on myself and try to close the gaps in the fences and fill the gaps in my heart and make changes and find inspiration and do Teshuva and make commitments and truly grow from the mistakes and work to know myself better and realize where the emptiness needs filling. and I learn and daven and grow. I'm not a hypocrite. I really do grow. ... and then I feel confident.

And it lasts for a while. Sometimes a very long while. And BH I'm sure that the last fall was just an anomaly, and I know that who I really am isn't the one who fell [which is true], and that I don't have to be on guard so much [which is a terrible mistake - אשרי אדם מפחד תמיד ומקשה לבו יפול ברע]

And it lasts.
.... UNTIL IT DOESN'T, DARNITTTTTTTTT!
And then, then, oh OY Rebonoy Shel Olam, not again.... oh please not again! How, how can I be once again hearing the silent, harrowing scream from deep in my soul "AYEKA!!?" 

It's about time that I am having the courage to admit that there is still a pattern.

I lurked here for about a month. I had a fall and decided to finally check this site out, not for others but for myself this time. 22 clean days. and now again a "minor" fall. 
And I finally decided to reach out for help. To stop being stupid. 
And I finally admit it. I need brothers. I need others . Because even though I am never alone, and even though I always whisper to the Rebono Shel Oilam, who always helps me, still  - I need chaveirim. I need help. I stand in front  of you, brothers, humbly ready to admit that I still have a problem. I am thankful on the night of הוד שביסוד that it's far, far from the problem I once had. I am thankful and proud of where I am. I do not define myself by my falls. BUT I WANT MORE. I NEED MORE. MY NESHOMA DESERVES MORE
I want to be 1000 days clean and more. I am so UNBELIEVABLY jealous of the heilige yiddin here who are clean for years. I NEED to be 100 percent clean. It's my hearts desire - a white-hot Ratzon Pnimi. But I need help from Hakadosh Boruch Hu and from you.
The deepest part in the center of my Neshoma  is sickened by the realization that I may have been still fooling myself [I am not entirely sure if I have been, or if I'm just a work in progress].
I am deeply inspired by the raw honesty and desperate yearning in many posts here. I love that so much. I love honest , searching growing yidden. I want to be an anonymous yid among others who are growing together. I want to grow more, be more, find out what roads are still open to me. 

Can you guys help me? Please?
I'm sitting in my office and crying at my computer.

There are many roads open to you. There is always room for growth. It is also very important to focus on the positive growth you have made and not be upset about any falls in a way that causes negative feelings about yourself. Feel free to reach out at any time.

Wow. Powerful. Your honesty will iyh help get you over the hump. 

What triggers those occassional falls?

Welcome! Your honesty and bravery in taking this step are amazing!
Something that might help: You might want to try thinking about your last three falls:
--What led up to them or caused them?
--What way did you fall, and what did you use to fall (if it was a device, etc.)?
--And is there any lesson you can learn from them to prevent them or to safeguard yourself? Or to be prepared before you are in a similar situation so you will be on guard and not asleep to the challenge that might come.These are some things to think about. (No need to post your answers if you are not comfortable or if they might be triggering to others. But if you post the lessons you learned, others might be able to learn something from them as well.)
Also, to keep your motivation up it's a good idea to read from something motivating every day. I highly recommend The Battle of the Generation. It's a real game-changer. See the link below in my signature.

Welcome! Beautiful intro post.

I'm going to go right for the jugular, since I'm banking on the fact that you won't be a hit a run.

Like HHM and The Captain mentioned, it's important to identify the story of a fall. How does it happen? What are the triggers? Where is the access? 

If I may deduct from your post (I'll take the liberty, please correct me if I'm mistaken), after every fall, you have that horrible after feeling, leading you to run the the side of kedusha in disgust. You become convinced that this time it's 100% over and never happening again.

You become so convinced, that for a few days/weeks the battle isn't daily and the struggle isn't even in your mind. It's not current reality, you believe, because it's never happening again. Ever.

Then, BAM! Whatever triggers you, hits you like a ton of bricks and you crumble, pretty fast. And the cycle commences yet again.

Sounds familiar? 

So what do you think can happen if you change it up a bit. What if you never become complacent? What will happen if you remain vigilant, all the while learning and utilizing new understanding and education about yourself in particular and lust in general? Very possibly, when the next test arrives you will be ready to respond properly and swiftly. 

Whether I'm on or way off target, please share a bit more about the actual struggle, and the oilam will gladly be of help.

Stick around! Hatzlacha!

Honesty, bravery, hero, powerful!?
Who are we kiddin'?
Honesty would be if he went to his wife and said, "Honey, I've been masturbatin', watchin' porn, oglin' girls and fantasizin' about prostitutes and strip clubs."
Bravery would be if he stood up by the amud in shul before leining and declare, "Rabbosai, you know all those drashos I gave about hirhurim and motzi zera and tznius, while they were all true, and at the same time, I have been deceivin' you, for I am presently a baal keri from in between the ohr hachaim shiur and pesukei d'zimrah, for I keep a stash of magazines in my office here."
True that might be stupidity (the disclosin' part) as well, but that's raw honesty and bravery.

Typin' your admission on an anonymous forum while clad in pajamas (if that) in your basement study is not honesty or bravery. It is a nice first step, and God-willin' he will continue.

Cap'n and Rebbe shlit"a, I love you dearly, but let's please not get carried away. If we are about honesty, then let's practice it please. I know I won't be liked for this post, and so be it.

R' Chaim, I'm sorry that you have joined this club. We were/are all there one way or the other. There are many tools here to move forward and God-willin', you'll find one or many. There are many good fellows here, and the two I called out are leaders of the pack. Our lives have been about secrecy, and that is what allows our disease to fester, thrive and flourish. When we open up to brutal honesty, that is when we can begin the healin' process.

I'm not advisin' that you should meet HHM outside the shtiebel (like I did) at this moment. I'm not suggestin that you schedule coffee or ice cream or pizza with Pidaini, Lizhensk, Zemmy, Big Moish, Tehillim Zugger, Still Goin', Heilige Guard, Jack the Ripper, Unanumun, Yechezkel hamelech, Levi the Litvak, etc. like I did - not right now, maybe eventually. See what speaks to you here. In this century (unlike mine), there are so many tools here at your disposal. Find one, two or three that speak to you.

Please don't allow my rant to deter you; you took a good step. Onward!!

Godspeed to you

This post was not approved by Dov beforehand; he told me that I should be gentle and I shouldn't be scary or insultin' and not be pompous. I might have failed miserably. My apologies.

There is a story I heard in the name of R' Moshe Weinberger about the Chozeh of Lublin ztl.

A man once came to the holy Chozeh crying, he was one of the big askanim in the shul and he had a relationship with another eishes ish. Rebbe he said, how can i do Teshuvah? 
There is only one way the Rebbe replied, you must after shul go up on the Bimah and announce out loud what you have done. This is the only way. 
Left with no choice the man went to daven a heartfelt broken Tefillah. After Aleinu in a packed shul he made the longest walk of his life down the aisle towards the Bimah. Slowly, crying profusely he went. Shul was packed full, this was the end for him but he had no choice if he wanted true teshuva. After what seemed like eternity he reached the BImah, slowly going up the steps crying and shaking all the way. Just as he was about to turn around and declare what he had done he felt a hand on his shoulder. Everyone was standing up, he had not noticed the Chozeh come in and walk behind him. "Its enough now, go home" said the voice of the holy Chozeh in his ear. 

That one walk, with a genuine broken heart, full of tefillos was his teshuva. How does this apply nowadays, i don't know. But what i do know is that a genuine feeling of teshuva, even a small movement in that direction should be celebrated. Is it honesty? Yes i think it is the ultimate honesty. Is it bravery, is it heroic? 100%. 

Each case is different and no one can know what someone else is required to do to acheive the Kirvas Hashem we all crave. But to declare a desire to change, to be able to put together a meaningful path coupled with genuine desire - you bet that is heroic. We don't live in the Yeshiva Shel Maalah, we don't live as malachim, we live in Olam Hazeh with all its tempations and pain. But to continually try and connect to the Ribbono Shel Olam, never giving up on this task - This is so powerful, and so chashuv i don't think this is something that can ever be measured.  

Why is a full admission to yourself less honest than an admission to someone else? I agree that it takes more courage and humility to admit to someone else, but I think there can be full honesty between you and yourself.

And while I agree that it takes more bravery to reveal your faults to someone else, there can be significant pain in admitting those faults even to yourself. And that does take some degree of bravery. 

taherlibeinu wrote on 16 May 2023 14:00:

Thank you for speakin' up and for the beautiful mashal.
The nimshal, however, in my opinion, is off the mark.
That fellow displayed true honesty. He demonstrated bravery, for he was on his way to shed himself from his lyin' life.
Here, on the other hand, we (many of us) are not there yet, not at all.
Again, I repeat: postin' on GYE is a good positive step, but it is not honesty or bravery.
Dov told me today (and many times) that this site could be more about Guard your Lies than Guard your Eyes.
He also told me the true definition of anonymous, and this forum isn't that.
Our forum is secrecy, where we hide behind fake user names and we don't trust each other; that's secrecy and it perpetuates our problem, for our problem (many of us) is the lies, not the masturbatin'.
Anonymous is what people do at a 12 step meetin' - they introduce themselves by their real first name - mine is Avrohom by the way, and divulge their secrets in the open. They trust each other, and for the vast majority, that works.
I am not advocatin' for meetin's or for 12-steppin'.
I am advocatin' for the truth though.
Maybe a poster has a true desire to change, and that's great; We will never know from a post.

Again, he did well and I wish him well.
Again, your mashal is great, but I actually think it proves my point, not yours. The Chozeh was advocatin' for honesty; he didn't suggest for him to to go into the Solska Forest and scream loud enough so the folks in the Roztocze Upland might hear his cries. 

Everyone should continue to post, search for the truth, discover life, and Godspeed!

cordnoy wrote on 16 May 2023 13:09:

Okay, so you want honesty? Here it is. If I would have received this kind of response to my first post, I would not be on GYE today. That's the honest truth. And the disclaimer (at the end) that "please don't allow my rant to deter you", wouldn't have helped.
Do you really believe that because it's an anonymous forum, that it's easy to bare your soul and reveal everything that you've been hiding until now? Do you know that when I first posted my story it took me about an hour to write it (not because of my typing skills, they're actually half decent) because my hands were shaking from the emotional turmoil of letting everything out, and that afterwards I couldn't go back to work because I was so drained from the experience?
Yes, it absolutely is bravery. And it's also honesty. Honesty doesn't mean disclosing everything to the people you know. That would be stupidity, as you correctly pointed out. Honesty means, mainly, being honest WITH YOURSELF and acknowledging that you have a problem, that it won't go away by itself, and that you need to take action to solve it, including reaching out to others who have had the same experience as you. This is exactly what our new friend was doing. And instead of belittling him with comments about pajamas in his basement, we should be heeding Dov's advice and giving him the kind of welcome that will encourage him to stay on and keep posting. 

monseyyid41 wrote on 16 May 2023 14:27:

Thank you.
I don't think I belittled him; we all are wearin' pj's.
My post was directed at the other posters; Reb Chaim and they are all great guys, presumably.
Your definition of honesty is incorrect.
Acknowledgin' your challenge and workin' on it is a very positive step, although it may not be honesty.
Hopefully, he will see that we can disagree civilly and with havin' a good time.
This is not personal at all.
There are all types on the forum, just as there are on the YWN coffee room.
I didn't get to read your personal message to me, but know this: I value everyone's opinions and my wish is that the forum should represent that.
Many times I post somethin', and then I receive texts thankin' me for speakin' up, or chastisin' me for my views; please keep them comin'.

Godspeed

This is from Dov:

Okay so the difference is very simple, but it's very hard to see when a person is actually in the fish bowl itself, looking out. There are many levels of honesty and each has a different effect on the person who needs help.

First, is the situation of a person who is living a double life. Pretty much everyone around him especially the people who are closest to him, see him very differently than he is. This may also include his own wife w whom he is having sex with occasionally and naturally expects she is the only one, and students who are being influenced by this person partially based on their perception of him. These kind of relationships are not just a matter of information or what the person says, but our assumptions about the way a person really is.

Living a double life (ongoing geneivas da'as of identity) takes a tremendous toll on the person. Eventually it takes a tremendous toll on those they affect - whether they are caught and exposed, or not. They do not need to be exposed to the public, but they need to be exposed to somebody, to 'come out', as it were. And that needs to be with real people, not with cows with big brown eyes, not with usernames. But with people who are real. Until they do, they are living a double identity in every area of their lives and it won't work. The game is still on. But who are they supposed to it open up to? The person has to be safe. We don't want to destroy someone's reputation in the community c'v - their family shouldn't be made to suffer more unnecessary suffering. That's why there are anonymous meetings in Lakewood, Williamsburg, Flatbush, crown heights, golders Green, Stamford Hill, Monsey, borough Park, Baltimore, Miami, Los Angeles, Ramat Beit Shemesh, Yerushalayim, and a ton of other cities all over the world. Quite a few of those places have over 100 people attending meetings and these meetings have been ongoing and successful for over 20 years in most of these places. No one is being outed, no rabbis, roshei kolel, businesspeople, people in shidduchim, etc, are being outed in their communities. If they were, these meetings would have disbanded long ago. And they are anonymous. I've been heavily involved with this forum (and the founder of GYE) for 15 years (the first 6 years has time to be posting on the forum for three to four hours a day) and bH speak to hundreds of members yearly - So I'm not talking out of a hat here, when I say that GYE is not based on anonymity, but on secrecy. Anonymity from each other, is just secrecy. And it makes perfect sense on an open , web-based forum like this! But That's why it can't really help people with serious problems. People living a real double life. People who might actually be addicts. Most people here are not addicts of course, but just have desires and don't yet know how to deal with them. That's perfectly normal, and has nothing to do with addiction.

Some people need real help, not advice, not sharing with usernames. But actual people who have been there and are clean for years because they are working a program or some sort of system that actually works. The forum does not possess that at all and never has. And it can't, for the simple reason that I explained above. It's still secret. It's preserving and protecting our habit, not solving the problem of self-lying.

chaimoigen wrote on 16 May 2023 03:44:

R' Chaim, your thread has started a nice discussion, but that should not distract you from your newfound mission. You should continue on your recovery path, one step at a time. If you need chizuk, Just look at the amount of people who took an interest in helpin' you along, look at the amount of folks who thanked you on your openin' post; truly amazin'!!

Keep it up!

Godspeed!

Dear Cords, we know your opinion about how to post, but there's no question in my mind that I would have never come back here if one of the responses to my post would have looked like yours. I sure hope Reb Chaim is stronger than me, but I have my doubts. Most of us here express ourselves the way we would want others to talk to us. And we express the things that helped us along. Let's face it, this way has helped many people break free, right? So this way does work, right? So what's your issue? Of course posting is honesty and bravery. I, and I'm sure many people who have posted here are holding at a point in our lives where posting on an anonymous forum is something we found very difficult, like MY41 expressed so beautifully. Some people have lived such openly deceiving lives that lies come naturally to them, and they have no problem posting, but many, many are not that way. I am not that way. The definition that you have of honesty and bravery, I'm happy you put that note in there, but what was the message you think Chaim read in them? I fully agree with you, and so many people who come here know, that true healing will come through greater openness, through talking to people with absolute openness, but coming and posting here is not something easy and not something that should be put down in any way. It makes no difference whether you meant to belittle him, if I were him I'd be belittled. If you read his post, you see a guy crying his heart out. Yes, I know, there are people that post for the fun of it and put crazy stories, but you and I know that they are the minority. Most people can't even build up the courage to post at all. So we should treat each post as true. So, when you finish reading his post, do you think he wants to hear about being in pajamas and what he should do if he's brave? 
The point is not about shita and the definition of honesty. The point is, what will the Reb Chaim feel and think? Will it help? What will many people that are contemplating posting think? I know what I would think, and I know that most people I have spoken to here would think the same. And those thoughts would not be helpful. Maybe some people would walk away helped, but many would walk away discouraged. Is that a flaw on their part? Maybe, but aren't we here to help? So you say a kick in the pants helps. Sometimes, when we have built trust, and we have shown the person that we truly care for them and love them, that we truly have their best interest in mind. But can we talk in way that might discourage people from continuing here?
Dears Cords, I have true respect for you and for all those that have made a long journey way before mine even began.
I know, I'm a mechutzaf, young whippersnapper, just showed up and is still wet behind the ears. I ask you to please think about the question: Do you really believe that Chaim walked away helped from your post?

Quite a few people (if not many) here have had hatzlocha by courageously posting, and then being guided, nudged, and prodded to speaking on the phone, and then oftentimes to meeting with a mentor. This process takes time.  Very often, the first conversation is only half of the story; the really bad stuff comes out after developing trust in the mentor.   Let's face it. A guy who is drowning has no idea what he is supposed to do; his judgement is way off. With encouragement and guidance, he will iyh get out of the mess. Each situation is unique and calls for its own approach. If it is determined that a specific fellow needs to share his history (and possibly his present matzav) with his wife, as is common practice in SA so be it - at the right time, and in the proper setting. If not, as is the case quite often - and i understand many may debate that statement - then he should not share his history. There is no one size fits all.

As many have stated, our responsibility on GYE is to help dear yidden get helped. BH many have been helped immensely. Ashreichem to the founders and administrators as well as to all who post and respond on the forums. To whoever is helping however they think is right, we all say THANK YOU and may Hashem bench you with all the brochos. Your care and ahavas Yisroel comes through and is greatly appreciated (whether or not everyone agrees with you).