I'd like to explain my thoughts a bit.

I don't know what the Raavad said or meant; I am only sayin' what I think is relevant to many of the people here.

We are strugglin' with holdin' it in, one way or the other. We need to work on figurin' that out. There are many methods to this. If we can simply turn to our spouse and say, "hey, can I use you please tonight as my sperm receptacle?" we gain nothin', and as a matter of fact, we lose a lot.

E.g., I think you would admit to me that if a fellow was watchin' porn for two plus hours, went to a strip club for half the night, eyed all the corner strollers sellin' their wares on the way home, went upstairs, undressed, and said, "honey, I'm about to sin," would there be a mitzvah for her to acquiesce and say, "sure darling, no problem at all"? Me think not.

cordnoy wrote on 28 May 2018 01:34:

He wasn’t talking about her Mitzvah, she has no obligation whatsoever. The Raavad said it, the Gemara said it, and while the Gemara very likely was NOT talking about all these activities, his point isn’t untrue.

I think it’s important to differentiate between someone who isn’t trying and uses his wife to save himself, and someone who is fighting the fight and working on what he can, even I efficiently, where acting out would derail him and where he turns to his wife for nothing more than to stop him from falling. That may not be the big picture that we’re looking for and the real growth,  but it’s not nothing.

I think we can’t forget that the growth we’re looking for and that we espouse- where we would happily skip being with our wives if it wasn’t healthy and positive for her and our growth- is something that takes a while to get to. 

I think both WG and Cord' got valid points. Being that this isn't the BB forums, I"ll keep my comments brief. Cord' used an extreme example to illustrate a point. In general you have more to lose by allowing yourself free reign on the S'mach of Pas B'Salo. (Or sperm dumpster...)
On the other hand someone who is working on guarding himself and keeps his side of the street clean, if once in a while he feels like he needs to ask his wife for a favor, WG is correct. It is totally OK. (If you look in the Raavad, he clearly mentions it is not preferred, etc...)
The Gemora mentions a story of the Amora Rava being in such a situation.
Some people might get the wrong idea, that asking their wife is a capital offense and instead rather masturbate or worse.

I know I struggled a lot with this. B"H, I don't ask my wife every day, maybe once a year. B"H I don't feel anymore quilty about it.

I might strive for perfection, but you got to learn how to walk before you run and it is important to know what is allowed and what not, what is preferred and what not.

lionking wrote on 28 May 2018 04:18:

+1 that was explained very clearly and distinctly

Workingguy wrote on 28 May 2018 03:14:

I respect you and your opinions completely. I have a hard time believin' that there really is such a choice - either sex with the wife or I act out. That is what workin' is all about.

That being said, I'm far from a saint, and I mistakenly think the same way at times, which I why I stay downstairs.

lionking wrote on 28 May 2018 04:18:

Please tell the admins that there should be some sign on each post if it is located in the bb section or not; this way, we can be more careful.

Will need to check the Raavad, for he is obviously talkin' about some situation.

I also should retract a bit, for there is a delicate balance between tryin'/workin' and givin' in somewhat, and there probably are times when there needs to be some allowance for an easier fix.

cordnoy wrote on 28 May 2018 04:58:
I don't really agree to this splitting of the forums. In my opinion, the entire forums should be limited to registered users only. I don't need Google reading all my posts. However once registered then all content should be available to all. Since I don't call the shots here, I try to follow the rules and stick to the set conventions.

cordnoy wrote on 28 May 2018 05:15:

עיין בטור אורח חיים סימן ר"ם.

The Tur quotes the Raavad, and it doesn't sound like he is talking about a special case since he writes, the person should have rather controlled his Yetzer, etc... However He was probably talking about normal people. The Ramba"m writes that in order to change a Midah it is required to go to the other extreme end of the spectrum. Perhaps someone who is addicted/semi addicted/constantly falling does need to strive for full perfection.

The biggest Hesder Ponim that we have is knowing how to apply a balance to all areas of our lifes. Especially in this Mitzva, where it is so much more delicate.

Looks like you are fed up living the way you have been for the last 30 years.

But you don't need to live like that anymore. You can decide that right now you are "Going" to live in the moment. In the moment that Hashem is giving you. In this moment you are not an addict. Only in your memories of the past. And your thoughts about whats going to be in the future.

If any cravings come up to watch shmutz or think about women, you can just observe them till them dissipate, because you don't wan't to feed them anymore. You have done that many times and you know it doesn't give you any lasting benefit or fix your problems.

If any thoughts of women jump into your mind you can just note the thought as a lust thought and then decide to bring your attention to whatever is happening in the moment. 

Eventually your will get good at this and wont be controlled by lust anymore. The lust will start to lose its strength in your body and mind and you will become more and more free. 

I was in the same place as you 100 days ago and I could easily go back again and have backslid many times in the past. Please Hashem don't let that happen!

But right now I feel great and  don't feel much lust. Thanks Hashem!

I have written out the program that I did from a mindfulness app here: https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/327296-Sholoms-Mindfulness-Recovery-Path

lionking wrote on 28 May 2018 10:30:

There is a section for men and one for women. Should there be a separate one for the married folk?

From yerushalmi....


I am not sure if my response is appropriate for the non BB forum, so I am sending you a private message, and if you don't mind, would you post it where you think it belongs. (You being a monitor, you get to decide)

The Ra'avad is in ??? ???? ????"? in ??? ?????. This is the Ravad's sefer on Hilchos Nidah. A well stocked Yeshivah library will have it, the average shul will probably not. He describes what kavanos one should have when being together with his wife. There are 4 levels. The highest, is one who performs the act solely for the mitzvah of Onah, to create more children. This person does the act without thought of physical pleasure. (My Rebbe told me, in the "Choson schmooze" that he gives to those about to get married, that this high a level is all but unreachable today. One should focus on the fact that he is doing his mitzvah of Ona'ah, but not fool himself into thinking that is the only reason why he is doing it.) The lowest of the 4 , is if one sees that his yetzer is getting stronger and stronger, and he fears that he will be Motzi Zera, he should be with his wife. This is still a mitzvah, albeit the lowest level of the 4. That is what he says.

He does not say how one should go about doing this. He can approach his wife and say, "i am having a hard time today, do your conjugal duties!". This will save himself from sin, but probably ruin his marriage. He can also do whatever it is that he does on a regular night they are together, and only he will know why he started. Or he can do something in between. Intentionally bringing the yetzer on himself, and then using his wife as a permitted dump, does seem a bit dishonest.

I found in my own struggle, that sometimes I am having a hard time, through no fault of my own. Sometimes I feel the yetzer getting stronger, and know that I will face a very difficult challenge. If I am together with my wife, that makes things a lot easier. The Christians say that sex is a sin. They are wrong. It is actually a Mitzvah. A mitzvah done without the proper intent is still a mitzvah. If one eats the matzah at the seder and thinks to himself that erev yom tov was so long, magid even longer, and by the time the matzah comes out he is starving, and digs in, he still gets the mitzvah of eating matzah the night of Pesach. It would be better if he has some loftier thoughts in mind other than just to fill his belly, but a mitzvah it still is. Perhaps this is what the Ravad meant. A person in such a situation is doing a mitzvah even if his intent isn't so holy. Knowing this, did make my struggle much easier!

I hope this clarifies things a bit. Please post (and/or edit) in the appropriate place if you think it will be beneficial.

Yerushalmi

There is a section for men and one for women. Should there be a separate one for the married folk?

I don't think a new section is necessary, but perhaps the married folks should have an option to mark a specific post or thread as BB, so that unmarried folk don't read what they shouldn't by accident and the site filters it out according to the profile if they're married or not. If someone is looking for erotic reading on purpose, there are better (/worse?) places...

Hi and welcome, 
​the definition of a sex addict is that he has underlying issues like depression and anxiety and moods that make his life unmanageable.
​so he escapes to porn and other stuff which is BTW the best escape from reality.   
therefor a lot of addicts found that they were addicted to lust before the age of natural desire
because it's not a desire issue. 
and therefor you could do as many tshuva and kabula you want or you could even get caught or being afraid of getting caught and it will not help you.
Because there life is unmanageable because of all there issues. so they must escape somewhere.
i as an addict could look on porn even if i'm not enjoying it just to get rid of life stress 
so here they found a program the 12 step program that if someone can't manage their life 
​they can give it over to someone to manage it i think you should try it out 
​also maybe a therapist could help a lot dealing with the issues 
​exercise could also decrease depression and anixzity
so come lets explore our options together 
sorry for my broken English its not my first language and i'm in a rush (don't know to what)
will try to fix it tomorrow  

The more I see how lust has control over me, the more I realize how much it has numbed and messed up my entire life. Going back and looking over my life from when I was a child, there are so many unexplained incidents where I misbehaved without understanding why I was acting that way, I now see that many of them were probably lust-controlled. This runs through to my married life as well, obviously. If I was addicted to lust, then getting married was just an ends to a mean and must have consequences. I have no other explanation and this one checks most of the boxes. I'm starting to accept that I must not objectify women, which is very difficult (even if I always knew it logically) as I have been "trained" to treat women that way since an early age. Whether through the centerfold page in the magazines in the barber's waiting area (way before the internet) or movies and adverts and later on porn.