cordnoy wrote on 29 May 2017 14:43:

 Having sexual desire is expected for a healthy male. It's almost a reflex to look at women. There's a reason that there are almost always beautiful women in ads/commercials that feature women. Same goes for tv and movies. What percentage of n*** scenes in movies are actually part of the plot, as opposed to just selling sexuality? This preys on man's natural instinct. As Jews, it's our job to raise ourselves above that. Yes, it's difficult, but that doesn't make me a lustaholic, I'm simply a dude with a healthy sexual desire. 

From different stories that I've read here, it seems like there are a number of holics or addicts that would not have succeeded with the few steps that I've taken. The fact that I have been succeeding doesn't mean that I'm stronger than all those that aren't. To me, all it means is that the fight is not as difficult for me.

My tendencies were different throughout the past year. Trying to put them in order, it'll probably go something like this:

Find rated R movies that are rated for the right reason, Porn on phone/laptop, masturbation, checking out women in the street or wherever, just fantasizing about all the triggering women that I saw that day or week.

For a long time, I felt like I wasn't up to fighting the desire and I was just unleashed with no restraint in the above matters. At a certain point, I struggled to keep away from porn. 

When I started to become active here on the forum, I dropped spilling seed from my minhagim. That meant that fantasizing touching, porn, everything other that finishing off & being mz"l was ok. 

After 90 days of being "clean" like this I stopped porn, touching, checking women out, fantasizing, etc.. So far b"h this has gone pretty smoothly. If I was an addict, I'd think that this would be much more of a challenge.

Dailybattle wrote on 29 May 2017 20:12:

You have successfully drawn a line with your actions. Its time to draw that line with your eyes.
Are you ready to do it? 
You say you wouldn't be able to do that (not masturbate) if you were single.
Does that mean that your wife is not only acting as your loving partner in intimacy and connection but also acting as a trash can at times?
That might be a good enough 'line' to begin with to help you draw that line successfully if there is even an iota of truth in it.

bb0212 wrote on 30 May 2017 05:47:

As one of the forum's token addicts I must say that 1) I am an extreme addict, completely powerless over my actions, completely powerless over lust, completely powerless over my emotions and my obessions (and my wife) 2) As you know I did it the other way around from you albeit less religiously (no 90 day program and no GYE) and i cut porn while allowing masturbation and that helped me kill the porn habit which then brought me eventually to GYE after several porn slips (these were not my only MO's) and I too have had a pretty smooth recovery from lust. Does that mean I am not a lustaholic and I am lying to myself? Or could it mean that my program of recovery has been strong enough with enough desire for me to be able to finally focus on the stuff behind the lust. 
So my main point here is that your conclusion that because you are having an 'easy ride' is not proof that you are not a lustaholic...
The main reason I say this brother is because I don't want you to fall and then excuse it as OK because you are not one of the addicts, and falls will happen... I want you to succeed (and finally cost me $90 regardless of whether you are an addict or not) because this is what you want for yourself!

Hi Grow Strong,

my holdup with drawing a line a line for watching porn is that the lines are blurred, allow me to explain my personal opinion:

Masterbating is a clear single act which is accepted by all as a complete sin. With watching and looking, it is easier for one to rationalise to them self that the content isn't That bad, maybe they are watching it as part of a film or even say they are looking for methods to spice up their marriage etc. I perceive (whether rightly or wrongly) that masterbation is worse than watching porn both in sinning and for relationships. As for your 'trash can' point, I think every man would have to admit that all relations partially serve this purpose in different levels and however you look at it, the reason I understand earlier marriage is recommended in gemorah and pirkei ovos is for a man to be avoid being 'pent up' and therefore more vulnerable to sin. This is not to say that it is healthy for a man to view relations as serving the 'trash can' purpose for obvious reasons, it is imperative that relations benefit both sides and is an expression of love.
Do you agree?

Daily battle, your point about marriage is 100% on the mark. For most people being a little selfish in the bedroom is normal and has mekoros in chazal. On this site you will find many of us writing strongly about this issue because as we try to kick the masturbating addiction/habit, we realize we will only be successful if we can remove from our marital relations any similarity to masturbation. Those like yourself who fortunately are not dealing with this issue do not need to be hyper focused on it like the rest of us.

It would seem that someone like yourself who obviously has strong willpower should be able to demand of himself more shmiras eynayim. If you need an extra push, maybe get a chaver (real or anonymous) who you can call when the nisayon arises to help you stop. If you have to answer to someone you will think twicebefore acting. Just an idea.

Dailybattle wrote on 30 May 2017 11:18:

In GYE I generally defer to the Rosh Yeshiva on this topic.
I would say that your statement works if you are just naturally 'pent up' but I would suggest that since you are (possibly) pent up through lusting with your eyes you lose the right to that pas bsalo.
To respond to your first point either you don't want to do it or you have rationalizations as to why it's ok.
Maybe pick one and stick with it.

Lust is lust.

Dov wrote me in an email recently that [many] come here to control their lust; I.e., that they should still be allowed to lust, but on their terms.

Maybe he's right.

B'hatzlachah

bb0212 wrote on 30 May 2017 05:47:

Thank you for takin' the time to respond. B'hatzlachah

Hi Hhm,

i appreciate your comments and agree with your point that I have proven I can stop watching using the same willpower that I stopped masterbation. 

Unlike masterbation, I find watching porn much easier to fall into, as it entertains my fantasies and gives me a unique rush (not like masterbation or relations). 

Dailybattle wrote on 30 May 2017 11:52:

We all have reasons.
We are all here to help you break the habit by sharing in your struggles, if thats the plan here.
Jump onto the 90 Day chart and take it one day at a time.

GrowStrong wrote on 30 May 2017 09:35:

Thanks for the well wishes!  however, I don't see the connection with not being an addict and allowing myself to fall because of that.

bb0212 wrote on 30 May 2017 12:12:

It's just something I have seen repeat itself over here many many times... When its 'just' a battle with the yetzer hora, he makes it easy to rationalize that you don't have to win them all.

Hi Rick,

You words give me strength! I agree that it is better that I somehow don't masterbate even while watching shmutz but you must remember that whatever way one acts out (whether peeking, watching, masterbating or worse) little relief is gained from how 'less ossur' their act was. It's all about the perspective and background of the person that determines how low they believe they have fallen. 

I am happy to report that since installing a new filter, i have been clean from watching for 2 weeks and that includes a night alone in a hotel for business where I was planning on watching all night! 

I hope you manage to stay clean for 90 days and beyond properly; you can do it! You wouldn't be saying what you say if you didn't want to beat this

Welcome dailybattle! I relate to many of your posts and issues. GYE has been a life changer for me. Fortunate you are to have come here now rather than waiting for it to get worse like I did. Perhaps you can save yourself and your wife lots of pain. May your journey be blessed with Hatzlacha!

Thanks!

i have made it very difficult to access any explicit material and am naturally getting back on track. This forum has definately helped me get back on track. I would say the best thing is to stay busy and disciplined with overall phone use. Good luck in your journey