That post you wrote on Oct 15 is a masterpiece buddy.  

You wrote now "I always struggle most just before Mikveh night. What can I tell you, I enjoy sex. We've developed a great bedroom experience and it's really fun. So I look forward to it. And think about it. A lot. Too much...."    So basically you are normal. What's the problem? Thinking about it too much? Let's face it. We made ourselves hypersexual. BH we stopped doing issurim, and stopped mistreating our wives. Bh you write that you enjoy the bedroom in a way that your wife enjoys too - that is the ratzon Hashem. So in a way you are thinking about a mitzvah....  you are not thinking about someone else, you are not thinking about manipulating your wife into doing something she would not want to do. You basically are missing the warmth and intimacy of normal married life. Should you (and I) control these thoughts? Of course, but recognize that that is a madreiga. Don't beat yourself up about it. Hatzlacha.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 22 Nov 2021 12:32:

You're a good man. 

I feel used. 

Like a dirty rag that's been used and abused and then tossed away.

My wife wants another child. Fair enough. We were supposed to go way this Shabbos and she doesn't want to go as we can't have sex there (not practical).  She said, "I'm not giving up my chances."

I feel like I'm just her toy. A plaything. A tool for her to get what she wants.

​And G-D help me, I feel like I've just discovered what it felt like to be her for all those years.

​May Hashem help me to heal the pain I caused her.  

(I should point out she said it with a wink as she knows I think the same way and that I also don't like giving up sex. But she also meant it. I should also say I only slightly feel used but I want to savour that hurt I felt as it is a massive reminder of what I must have made her feel). 

bego wrote on 13 Dec 2021 12:26:

Buddy, count your blessings! 1- your wife wants more kids! 2- she is able to get pregnant naturally!
i wouldn't mind having at least on of the above realities... 

bego wrote on 13 Dec 2021 12:26:

amazing! i remember what it was like years ago when the vacation planning was all about sex for me, and where it would be better for me, and where the girls would be hotter, and where more opportunities lie, yes, i remember them so well, and all the pressure it put on her, and all the disappointments, thousands of them, i remember very little, but this is so vivid in my mind, it feels just like yesterday, maybe it even was.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be insensitive and apologies it came across that way. Was just trying to bring out the realisation that after all I've used her over the years, one tiny little thing she said upset me. How much more so.....

bego wrote on 13 Dec 2021 14:58:

No hard feelings at all!

Hi Bego, sounds like a tough pill to swallow. I struggle a lot with the feeling of being manipulated and used which causes a strain on my relationships. I get upset, shut down emotionally and can become passive aggressive in not wanting to be together so as not to be manipulated. Sometimes my therapist can help me see where I have twisted the story and sometimes the feelings are genuine. Even so, they are often exaggerated way out of proportion. 

The feelings of being used are real, the hyper sensitivity is real, and I can learn to trust others the same way if I put in the work.

I am just trying to share that I suffer from these feelings often, they are not fun. Feelings of rejection and disappointment make everything not worth the effort and that it also helps to be in touch with our emotions and their causes.

Okay, that's it, sorry if I missed the boat, just sharing a little of me.

Wilnevergiveup 

bego wrote on 13 Dec 2021 12:26:

Wow. Every chosson should be given this to read.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 15 Dec 2021 12:26:

Thanks HHM, I have the feeling you understood my point. 

I think that most of us actually got your point. We were just a bit confused as to how serious you were vs sarcasm.
Yes, if only we realized the emotional trauma we put our wives through...

gettingthere9 wrote on 15 Dec 2021 19:09:

Def wasn't sarcasm. Hope it didn't read that way! It was a serious point made through an exaggerated and slightly self mocking piece of irony. Evidently it didn't work as well as I hoped :-) 

Bego's post is true regarding both issues. 1. Men have feelings too, and we are very affected by our wives' decisions regarding sex, and that is normal. 2. We often do not realize how our decisions/behaviors regarding sex have deep effects on our wives.    Let's face it, sex has a very deep emotional component. We are givers and receivers at the same time. Balancing our "needs" and what we are supposed to be doing in the bedroom, takes a lot of sensitivity and wisdom. Nobody really prepares us for this; we learn "on the job". And for those of us who took the "online courses", we have a lot to unlearn....

Hi all

Just my usual thinking aloud...

So on another thread one of the leading lights of GYE (meant sincerely, I respect him) mentioned about the great achievement of withholding oneself. He mentioned it in context of a Novi and who knows what might have been about to happen etc. 

I don't want to argue with that because I can't. But I do think it's worth reminding ourselves of a different approach. 

This approach says we are not doing this to save the world from dark forces or from anything else for that matter. We are not trying to bring the geula or save the world. 

We are doing this, to be human. To have self control (as Chazal say about a ben chorin) and to be the human beings we can. Maybe, that will have some effect on worlds we can't see or know about, but frankly I, for one, don't really care. I want to not see naked women when I want to Daven. I want to not feel driven to porn (i.e. to lack self control). I want to be ME and to use all the potential Hashem has given me. Hence, when I withhold myself, I am training myself to be me. Likewise, if I give in, I am not sure whether I create demons, kill some seed or anything else. Maybe yes, maybe no. The point is, it doesn't matter. When I fall, I am a fallen person and that is what I don't want and what must drive me upwards.  

I don't need a Novi for that.

I just need to work hard and become a better person.

Hi Bego,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts in a very respectful way of the other approach that someone else mentioned. You have brought up many good reasons why one should not be involved in shmutz.
With respect, I want to make one הערה that I think you would agree with. We must not forget that even if there was not a single [perceivable] downside in this world to not guarding our eyes or being mz"l, we still would need to keep these halachos with love and precision because that is the halacha and thus our mission as Jews. Thus, when push comes to shove, that the halacha demands it of us is really the reason why we do not do these things, not anything else. Everything that you mention is a great side benefit of keeping these halachos. I thought it was important to write this on the forum.
Wishing you much bracha.