Your question was "how do I get to real simcha if I'm acting out?", so I believe I answered your question. Hatzlacha!
GrowStrong wrote on 26 Mar 2017 04:11:

So this is what I am actually saying from my first comment in this thread...
Hypothetically speaking.
Let's say I would have come to you for advice, a few short months ago, before I started recovery, and told you all my dark secrets, and explained to you that no matter what I do, I cant stop acting out when the compulsion takes me over, and in reply you would have given me the following advice;


I would have said back to you, "but I am b'simcha!... In fact very often, when i am really happy, and elated, I go get me some porn against my real desires. And my life is great its not just good!
Would you then say to me


I would then have replied back to you saying my attitude is great! And i am really satisfied with life also. I am also a happy person. Ask anyone who knows me in real life.
BUT I CANT STOP MASTURBATING.

To add to it, many people have this additional argument with themselves over whether they should be fighting the yetzer hora or surrendering their lust. They are two VERY different methods. Addicts need to surrender their lust, addicted non-addicts need to fight the yetzer hora which they could also do with simcha. But as an addict, simcha doesnt seem to be a tool i can use to get sober.

So my question (as an addict) is, how is genuine happiness going to be a tool to help me to stop masturbating.
The complexity of my question that complicated the discussion was the fact that there is a vicious cycle which has been brought up a few times in the past 24 hours here in the forum, which kills all genuine happiness when you act out. And that's why I added how do you get to genuine happiness when that bubble bursts after you act out. If its genuine happiness that is going to stop you from acting out.
I ask because i want as many tools in my tool shed as I can gather, and many others may also gain from this advice.
Or as they say on the interwebs.... asking for a friend.
Feel free to say this advice was when you get to step 12 or was for non addicts - but if it was for addicts i would really like some more clarity.
Thank you !

There is not necessarily one single tool to stop acting out, but there are some that are very good ones, including genuine happiness (i.e., simcha). Also, the claim that someone in his active addiction can be genuinely b'simcha...well...I don't buy it. I think you may be getting a feeling of excitement and temporary joy confused with simcha, and therefore need to research what genuine happiness is from a Torah perspective.  There are many books on this subject, but I recommend Twersky's: "Simcha, It's Not Just Happiness".  It might also help to do some deeper introspection and see if you are really feeling genuine simcha or not. If you are, then you'd be the first person I've met in ten years of being in this program who walked in with a genuine sense of simcha and positive outlook, but is unable to stop acting out. I'm not saying it's not possible, but doubtful. As Twersky says: "I've never met an addict with good self esteem" - and self esteem goes hand in hand with simcha.

To more specifically address your question of how simcha can help you stop masterbating, the answer is that addictions are fueled by a desire to kill pain. That's assuming the behavior is destructive. If you don't view masterbation as destructive, and you're doing it just because you enjoy it and there are no negative consequences, then that's different. But I'm assuming you're here because something inside you is telling you to stop and you can't. So the question to ask yourself is why am I doing something that I know is self destructive? When we are b'simcha, we can rise above our pain without needing to masterbate it away. A major goal of the 12 steps to change our attitude into one that allows us to have some comfort in life. To feel better without having to resort to our drug. In other words, to lower our pain, which in turn obviates the need for our drug. Letting go of resentments, sharing our pain with others, learning how to have gratitude, these are all tools to lower the inner turmoil which fuels the addiction. For more insight into this dynamic I highly recommend that you connect to Duvid Chaim, either one on one or through his phone conferences. I hope this helps to answer your question.

workingmyprogram wrote on 26 Mar 2017 16:38:

I will read it and report back on my findings while doing my best to remain honest with myself.

workingmyprogram wrote on 26 Mar 2017 16:50:

So you are saying that Simcha isn't only a result of these tools, but its also a tool to use these tools....

i am not sure i am fully understanding the discussion but it sounds like the question is if it is possible to have simcha even if what your doing is wrong 
what does that have to do with these issues more than anything we do wrong

i'm adding a file from r' tzodok  i think he says it is surely possible 
simcha has many dimensions and is more than just a word or idea

tzomah wrote on 26 Mar 2017 18:41:

My question was whether Simcha can help you to stop acting out. I then got sidetracked talking about the levels of Simcha and how achieving real genuine Simcha (let's call it greatest highest levels of simcha) is hard before you get into recovery. And how many times I fell after moments of what I felt (and believe still were) real moments of Simcha. 
I was told that it was a fake simcha and we went in circles a little. 
I need to meditate more on this thread so sorry for recapping it again I guess I'm the one going in circles now

ok i think based on what r' tzodok says there that simcha can help you stop acting out
and that it is definitely possible to have real simcha while acting out

Welcome!  Your recovery efforts should be blessed.

tzomah wrote on 26 Mar 2017 18:41:

I agree that the disproportionate guilt we feel after acting out is really the work of the yetzer. We tell ourselves we feel bad because we sinned, or we angered Hashem, etc etc, but it that's true then why don't we feel the same sense of shame after speaking loshon harrah, getting angry, or any other aveira we do? A rav of mine from by bachur days actually pointed this out to me when I told him how guilty I felt about acting out.  So let's at least be honest and not dress our guilt up in a tzaddiks clothing, but rather recognize him for the tricky scoundrel he most likely is.

is loshon hora an addiction?
do peoplr trying to stop have the same hard time as this ?
is there the same enjoyment ?
i think the y"h wants to fall in this area more hence more guilt 

i think l"h is also different because its accepted by society you also automatically need someone else so there is less guilt 

I don't see how any of those things you mentioned mean that we should feel any more guilty regarding acting out than any other aveira. In fact, most of the the things you mentioned actually mean we should feel LESS guilt.

workingmyprogram wrote on 30 Mar 2017 03:25:

What does guilt have to do with it.
i think I even specified we were not talking about guilt a bunch of posts back.
It was not guilt that disconnected me from Hashem and simcha. 
It was me being disconnected from myself and from my family and my life by escaping into self love which is selfish and inconsiderate and many other words.
But I did actually say this wasn't a discussion about guilt. 
Guilt is as hopeless a feeling as resentment. 
Its negative and gets us nowhere.
Guilt didn't stop us from going to porn again, it just made us feel even worse about it.
In fact I would suggest that guilt is just another device of the YH.

workingmyprogram wrote on 30 Mar 2017 03:25:

of course we should feel less guilty but then we would be able to stop witch is something the y"h doesn't want 
we don't feel guilt based on reality that would be constructive and get to change we feel guilt based on preconcieved notions that have no basis in reality the coreect word would be shame there is much less of that in other aveiros probaly if we would suffer from a tayvah for avodah zora it would look simial to the tayvah of arayus
i think what gs means not connected to myself might be shame