cordnoy wrote on 20 Oct 2016 22:17:


I'd grant you that, although if you make someone else happy--אם אתם משמחים את שלי אני משמח את שלכם

II recently saw from reb volbe I think that Hashem loves us because He chose as His special nation and He also loves us based on our performance and our service to Him.

I'd have to agree that making Hashem happy (in the sense of staying sober) does not guarantee that He will make me happy at all. And BH I long dropped that as a goal in staying sober.

My main things at this point are to make sure I am doing my job as a provider for my family and not wasting time on porn. Those two issues I found closely connected and devastating to my self esteem. In fact, it doesn't matter how intense the porn is, even "softer" or even "secular-socially accepted" types of promiscuity leave me feeling completely worthless and taking it out on others when I waste my time with them. 

The Taphsic I put in place is limited in time, and also basically says, BEFORE I go to do XYZ trigering or acting out activity, I will first say 10 perakim of tehilim and post to the forum. That is basically to try and put some space between me and my acting out and hopefully allow some secheil to activate and not do the bad actions. 

Watson wrote on 12 Oct 2016 20:45:

AA gut yar to you.
(pardon my stutter, but gye editor does that to me.)

I feel it is extremely noble of you that your focus is on your family and how you provide for them. Your posts now and in the recent past have been filled with that.

In the past (before the recent past), you were very sincere about sobriety and your service to God. It seems that now, that has taken a back seat, which is fine, as long as you are.

B'hatzlachah

AA gut yahr to you to. (no freudian slip there). Yes at this point my focus is on not destroying my family mainly which I see bchush, that porn does. 

And Watson, I have never met otr, but after spending lots of time with him on phone and in emails and reading his entire history spanning many years on this site, he is an addict.

Otr, I apologize if I overstepped my bounds.

OTR wrote on 26 Oct 2016 14:56:

OK, thanks for clarifying. I don't really want to say it, but I feel I need to. What you describe is not the SA program. Writing and phone calls are part of it, but by no means the whole program. Doing bits and bobs like that is like putting 2 eggs on a stove and expecting them to turn into an omelette. Hodo hu dichsiv "half-measures availed us nothing." You can't make an omelette without cracking eggs.

Which is good news. If you haven't tried SA yet you don't know it won't work. You can have a back-up plan just in case you run out of other options.

OTR wrote on 26 Oct 2016 14:56:




I've read a lot of theories. I was hoping you might share your experiences with them and, crucially,  whether or not they worked for you.

I couldn't agree more. In SAA they have a whole preamble about people who "dabble" in the program and how it's not going to be effective. It says that those people usually hit a point where they have to commit much stronger. I dabbled in SA for almost a year. I went to meetings, made phone calls, did stepwork and read the Big Book. I even wrote lists. But those things don't keep me sober. I need to be honest with myself and do the actions of recovery for myself, not just because it might work or my sponsor tells me to. I needed to write a 1st step, not a story. I needed to really develop a God of my understanding, not just assume that the God I grew up in was good enough. I still am working on that! It's actually really hard for me. I needed to sincerely put all my effort into recovery and do it for myself. I needed to shut up and listen. Those things kept me sober. I would like to repeat again that honesty is key for me, I was very dishonest with my first sponsor. People pleasing is a huge character defect of mine and I would lie or fudge the truth or not say something because I didn't want to look bad and I wanted him to be happy. I'm not saying that you aren't honest, OTR, I'm just saying what worked for me.

I think i shortchanged myself. I did a heck of a lot more than writing and reading (although I found the inventories to be the most helpful in many respects.) I have done live meetings with groups that I feel safe in. Although I never went to an open SA meeting from what I have learned about the program we pretty much did what they do when I met guys from my phone group. I liked those meetings and would do more.

Cords- I guess it is a matter of semantics. What killed me and made me feel like an addict was not being able to attend to my other obligations in life. Strangely enough, in some of the darkest places on the web I met people engaging in depraved activity, but when it came time to do what needed to be done to pay the bills- they just got up and went. - I began to say to myself, now why should I be a loser and sit here watchin people come in and out like I'm a greeter and Wallmart. I have obligations too. And in so addressing these things, I feel a lot less bothered by the acting out actions.

Funny enough though I found that engaging on these forums made me realize as well how bad porn was for me, the solitude, desperate, completely focused on sex. And that talking to people- while arguably worse in a lotsa ways, was actually not making me feel the same way. 
I guess I would agree I am an addict, but something has subtantially changed. I see it in my perspective through the yomim noraim and in the way I am relating to my wife. 

I guess I am an addict that does not care about being an addict as long as I don't get carried away and A: forsake my external obligations B: Let out rage and frustration at myself on my wife and kids when I am acting like a beheima. 

Maybe not very GYE kosher. BUt Hey, that's my honest teitch of me for the day.

Honesty is great.
i knew you went to meetings and you didn't like them but I wasn't sure you wanted that brought up 

The paragraph addressed to me, I don't really chap.

The fact that you're providing for your family is super. I will not try to convince you that the addicted part of you should be a great concern of yours, but since honesty has been mentioned here, I need to say that I see this coming back and biting you. I hope and pray that it doesn't though.

I don't remember this quote but I will coin it anyway (it's probably an oldie): if you don't control it, it will control you.

B'hatzlachah friend

OTR wrote on 26 Oct 2016 23:30:

I agree that you shortchanged yourself. I still don't want to say it but still have to. You didn't allow yourself to fully experience SA, so that option is still on the table.

If you had committed to a live group and attended 2 or 3 times a week, got a sponsor, followed his suggestions, did your written step work for all 12 steps, made daily phone calls, surrendered lust each time it came up etc etc then I wouldn't be saying this.

The thing is that the SA program is a hell of a lot of hard work. Nobody would do it if they weren't desperate. That's why I'm not suggesting that you attend SA. I don't have the right to tell you to work that hard. But, you shouldn't say you tried SA when you haven't fully worked the program.

OTR wrote on 26 Oct 2016 23:30:

Fair enough. Thank you for your honesty.

cordnoy wrote on 27 Oct 2016 03:47:

Are you sure that is referring to me? Any in person meetings that I have had have been great for me. I reach out every so often to guys I have met  in person to touch base and these are strong points for me.