I am getting ready to post a note that I am feeling a desire to go watch youtube vids that are not porn but definitely objectify women etc... As I am getting ready to write I am thinking to myself that over the last few months, this is exactly how my downfall has started. - A post that I feel I am weakening... some more posts to that effect. And eventually I act out. - Here I am now, with about 20 days clean. I am happy. I feel good. I just have that itch starting up again. ... and then I say well.... look at your previous post... go read some of your own past writing.... Of course that is a gerat idea. But then I say, ehh who has time to read through all this now... back to work- THAT'S a big mistake. I need to "TAKE THE TIME" to use the tools I learned. And it DOES take time. 

There is a lot of benefit it just posting- getting the thoughts out there. reading some of the comments. And it helps me in a lot of cases. The appeal is that - it's almost effortless really. Just post a brief thought about a struggle I am having and get it out. Sometimes I get responses and comments that are very insightful sometimes a little chizuk... - but THIS stage is where I think I NOW must invest more time in reading my old work, writing down more to put in the effort that needs to be done to help me when my addict wakes up. (I hope)

OTR wrote on 23 Mar 2016 16:34:

Reading backwards. Hmmmm. Not a bad idea.  I was totally on board with this post the first time I read it (see here), but now I can't help but ask-

Is never again really too much to want?

Hope OTR is BOT is OTR...

thanks613 wrote on 18 May 2016 05:15:

 

Cumulative Clean Days: 178

 THanks... I never realized how peculiar the taste when I eat my own words. ;) . You know that is the healthiest thing to eat every now and then... your own words.... 

Yesterday while thinking about this, and feeling like I am heading toward a weaker time-  I did read some more of my previous writing again in a file which I journaled in and on GYE. I took a look at my 90 day diary, and all of this was helpful in getting me more of a perspective on what what I want to do. I like posting on the forum, and although it is anonymous, I don't feel comfortable writing down everything that is happening with me. In my private journal on my G drive, I wrote some things that were floating around in my mind and felt better. I think apart from the forum, I need to write just for myself as well, where I can face everything without thought of how others will react- at all... Truthfully as I wrote I still had fear "how can i write this"... "what if my wife sees it" "what if my kids discover it one day"...

But I wrote what I was thinking about the urges inside me- and got it out. And boy what a sad picture it was. I felt like a real loser when I wrote out what I was really thinking. Not depressed- I don't mean that. I mean, that I am a lot better than what those urges are telling me to do. Connecting with people who I really think are a bunch of losers, and then feeling myself needing them... to fulfill some  my addiction... yich. I felt that folowing that path of desire would make me feel like a loser as it has in the past. (I am competing with Trump to see who can use the word Loser in their dialogue more btw ;) ) 

Lots of "G's."
I won't delineate.

That one went over my COrdnoy? What did you mean? 

Not worth it.
Don't worry.
Keep up the good work.

B'hatzlachah

I never did figure out the whole G thing, but anyways..

I've seen alot of stuff that Dov writes about how we look at people in the porn industry as losers (I assume that's who you're referring to?), yet we worship them, etc.  - Sometimes I like it, sometimes  maybe not

I saw one thing this week that really caught my eye though (on the "Tryin" thread). It was something about how I realize that I could really be doing the same thing they are if things had been just a bit different, like if I had been born not Jewish or not frum.  Of course I could be wrong, but I have often imagined all the "fun" I would be having if I wasn't Jewish.  The sad thing is that all these fantasies don't seem pathetic to me, but rather normal, exciting, and liberating.  In my twisted mind, it is only lonely old me, in the privacy of my room late at night with the lights out, pretending that there is someone there with me, and all the rest that I do which seems pathetic.   

I understand not sharing everything on the forum. Totally. But do you think it might be helpful to you to have somebody to share those things with?  

May Hashem help you and me both.

thanks613 wrote on 19 May 2016 13:10:

Great post.

Yes it was in the tryin' thread and it was Dov talking and it blew my mind as well. The way that you described the contradiction in the way that we can relate to these people is something to think about.

Alot of people feel that if they had the freedom of not being frum then they wouldnt feel such an urge to act out. Its an overwhelming and sometimes scary feeling. I don't feel the clarity right now to write about that even though I've given it lots of thought over the years. Just one point: I am a FFB who was brought up in a home of FFB's. Anyone like me who went to regular yeshivos and lived in regular frum communities needs to realize that WE HAVE NO IDEA what being not frum or not jewish is like. Our entire exposure is through tv and movies. Hollywood is not a great source of real information. After all, it exists to provide fantasy. I don't know if you are like me in this regard. But for me it was important to to confuse real secular life with the fantasy sold by hollywood. There are lots of lonely guys out there in the darkness of their bedrooms - as you described - and they are not jewish. 


 

Well said Simcha.

I am thoroughly convinced that life is NOT necessarily more enjoyable for someone who isn't jewish and can do whatever they want, etc.
For 1, look at how many jews who were secular leave it all behind and come to torah and mitzvos etc.
Both my parents are BT, and i heard over the years how nothing is as appealing as the truth. 

In the holy books it is said that all which is wrong is inherently dark, lifeless and devoid of life,  hence it must leech onto holiness and harvest that energy for its own designs. 
(As sometimes we experience that after particularly holy times (ie shabbas, learning) we can find ourselves in the midst of very difficult challenges) In the same vein, this is also why the jew can outdo his peers in perversion of mind and heart,  when that potent energy goes awry, it goes awry.

So in essence all of the lusting and passion and pleasure are twisted manifestations of holy energy stolen and expressed out of whack. 

Were one to throw away these sources of energy by living apart from torah and mitzvod,  there wouldnt be much supply of energy sustenance for our enjoyment of sin. 
It would quickly descend into empty and lifeless activities,  a frantic pursuit of an elusive thrill that once captivated us. 






(Man i had better snap back to reality, this post is a bit "out there".................................  need a morning coffee)

lol yesod. funny ending to that post. I have also heard that concept before. It sounds to me like the guys who posted above as saying they think they would not be bothered by acting out if they were not Jewish. This seems to indicate that the main source of feeling bad is the religious guilt. 

To me that is not the issue. I ask you guys to consider, if you were addicted to alcohol, which is not against the Torah, would it bother you? Or addicted to eating which is not even something that makes you drunk.... There are millions of addicts out there who are desperate for a cure from these addictions and not bec. they feel the Rabbi would look down on them. Addiction gets me to do things that I know are bad for me, and if left unchecked things which are progressively worse and dangerous to me, my lifestyle and eventually my life. I feel debased when I act on my addiction not only because it is animalistic and I am embarassed by it, but because I am totally out of control and it scares me. 

Beena while since I got that out. It is important to do so every now and then. 

Good point(s) OTR. Thanks!

On one of the recordings, Dov mentioned that most nonjews he sees in SA meetings are there because their addiction to internet pornography is ruining their lives.  That was a bit of a shock to me, but I think it speaks to this point.  (of course, there is also non-jewish religious guilt and other taboos, etc.)

For me, using porn addictively is a problem like any other addiction when it wrecks my life by interfering in all sorts of areas - school, work, family, friends,  - and like you mentioned, causes me to feel like I have no control.  But if I could use alcohol, food, even drugs (sort of) without all of these side effects, I might do them with a good and clear conscience.  Why should I feel bad about who I am as a person, as a Jew, as a friend, son, brother, husband (I'm not actually married, but...) for enjoying my liquor or joint (even in secret)? As long as it's within reason and well managed.  Sex/porn/masturbation/fantasy are not like this for me. They contradict everything that I think I am and want to be.  Maybe drugs/alcohol are the same in a way, but I think lust addiction is unique for this reason.

Either way, I'm here because my lust is not well managed. And I don't overdo drugs.alcohol as a rule. And I don't get "OA" so much (eating disorders are a separate problem, which I do understand).  So this is mostly academic.

Yesod wrote on 19 May 2016 13:58:

Some powerful stuff yesod. On the same note over thinking and worrying or any obsessive thought that's taking you out of reality is in essence the same idea of taking God given energy and wasting it on thoughts that are not producing anything. 

Yesod wrote on 19 May 2016 13:58:


I am thoroughly convinced that life is almost certainly not more enjoyable for one who's not Jewish, for a million reasons. I too have thought about what it would be like to be not Jewish and be able to do what I want, and it ends at seventy something and lonely, having slept with a lot of women and no long term relationship, a few divorces, and no kids or estrangement from them. I wasn't even trying to convince myself that our way is better, but I couldn't possibly see a way that not having a guide to life could end anyway but pretty miserably, especially for someone who probably would act on every impulse if they weren't Jewish.

So I'm sticking on this team even if I get the
"Switched at birth" phone call!

   

Workingguy wrote on 19 May 2016 23:19:

Yeah, we'll see when you get the call,.......
"Sooooooooo mr working guy,  your last name is actually Rockefeller. ..., wanna come home? "
Working guy response 

"Noooooo!!!, chas vchalila, feh, and besides can't you see I'm gratteh in the middle of asher yotsar from a siddur, leave me alone!, oh no, i talked in the middle,  oh no,  oh no,  someone give me malkus, please, ok gotta go bye, thanks anyways for calling",  click

Yeahhhh, riiiiiiight