yeah, i get it. i take full responsibility for my actions, at all times. But the Y"H pushes one along that path ever so much stronger than you would ordinarily go. you can call it what you want...lust, desire, lack of control, addiction, but I call it the Y"H. It is an unseen yet tangible force that compels deleterious action. Isn't that the same as an "addiction" which is possibly just as amorphous. You are not undergoing any "physical" addiction with lust, like one would for heroin or booze, but the force is still there. Call it what you want, but don't cavalierly dismiss it.

You seem to be familiar with alcohol and drug addictions. Can you tell us how you were able to overcome those?

Moish,

Firstly I am not familiar with alcohol and drugs. But if I can just make a subtle point. Alchohl and drugs one must go out of their surroundings and pursue it. Can I get alcohol and drugs with a push of a button? (Well maybe I can just click and get drugs via some shaddy guy on amazon selling drugs for bitcoins LOL!) I can pretty much pursue lust with one click on my toilet seat though.Furthermore, is it a must to ever dabble in alcohol and drugs (OK once again someone who is in lots of pain must take drugs as pain killers but under usual circumstances). But it is a must to dabble with sex for anyone married. So yes I suppose some fighting techninces are the same but in some ways I think its safe to assume that lust is a harder animal to overcome due to the above reasons.

For whoever is willing to listen:

I think that it is a must to dabble with sex if you are married, but I do not think that it is a must to dabble with lust if you are married.

And the contrast between alcohol and lust, I don't give one darn about, for I need to focus on the lust part.

Cords either way one a guy is having that physical relation if its all love and no lust he is still dabbling with something that once made him shikkur. Alchohol one can never touch his whole life and live just fine.

waydown wrote:


My blessing is that you should merit realizing when you are wrong....one can have sex and not lust.....No dabblin' at all.

Cords,
Call it what you want. (dabble etc..) At the end of the day lets use alcoholism as a moshol. And in fact I think the 12 steps is modeled after alcoholism anonymous. So say an alcoholic surrendered and went thru the program. Now on peasch he wants to drink wine for the mitzvah not for shikkur purposes. Or Friday night he is makpid to use wine for Kiddush. (again not a shikkur motive at all). Wouldn't most dr's advise this fellow to refrain from wine despite the fact that he is not doing it for "lust" or any unpuresit reason? Yes and you know this too. Bottom line is even if you do have sex correctly, its still playing very much with that same thing that once caused you lust. And the same is true with adrug addict in recovery. Normally if one is under a lot of pain the dr can prescribe medical marijuana to relieve that pain. But if one was once an addict the dr will be more reluctant. Why he is not taking the drug for the "lust" or lure of drug addiction. Nevertheless stay away from that bottle.
Face its, its one of the challenges that a sex luster has verse an alchohlic.
Please stop making believe that oh if we just do 12 steps and we just do this its all easy. Noone says life is easy. So I am not saying don't do what you have to for recovery. But when people naively say oh its easy and don't recognize challenges it makes it harder for those trying to recover.

I was trying to make a point that many have recovered from lust using the same, or very similar, methods that have been used to recover from other addictions, including, but not limited to, alcohol, narcotics, and gambling.
Now, being that you have neither sobriety from lust, nor experience with other addictions, why not open your mind to what others are saying a tiny bit?
And, I don't recall any one ever saying that it's easy. Please feel free to use the amazing search feature on this forum to see for yourself.

Yes Moish and sorry if I didn't fully acknowledge that point. Yes use the similar methods for recovery. Please do. All I was trying to say is that being that lust is a different animal it has its own unique challenges. As such using the same recovery methods may work for some or the majorty but not for all.

waydown wrote:


My blessing remains the same.
I never said it was easy.
As a matter of fact, it is difficult.
The most difficult part for many is the stubbornness that has effected and permeated their entire being.

Amen to your blessing!!!

Point still remains that lust has different heads than alcoholism and in some ways is harder since its unavoidable as one who is married must hold that bottle of booz unlike an alchohlic.

Point still remains that nobody on this thread seems to have any experience with alcoholism and therefore has no idea what they're talking about...

Case in point:
serenity wrote:

Thanks Cords,

Just one more difficult part for many is to just do things blindly without understanding (some times things that defy logic or the way of the world) while at the same time the way we work on ourselves is thru our minds (Kind of an oxymoron)

(or when we are told don't ask why just follow orders)
Just sharing my difficulty.

i know of a couple ppl who have the "trifecta" of addictions (sex, alcohol, drugs) and one of them is very adamant that there's no difference between them.