Hi everyone. I've been a member of GYE for a few years but never really used it. My addiction is bad -- I've been to groups but couldn't maintain anything long term. I found the groups in my city weren't so great, not like what I've heard about. Of course I could just be being judgmental. Anyways I left and am trying IFS therapy, or I was but I had to stop for a bit for financial reasons. I'm very frustrated and want to write a bit, I guess just for someone to resonate about it. Please don't give me tips, I've got every solution in my head, I just don't have the whatever it is you need to do it.

I was just up on a computer, that belongs to a yeshiva, looking at porn (I got through the filter) and then I masturbated right here in the office. This isn't a new things or anything. I've crossed a lot of lines. I feel like G-d doesn't want to help me, like it's all a big game. He gives me just enough to survive, but life like this isn't survival, it's slow death. (I know this all isn't true I'm just telling you how I feel right now). He gives me a problem that is essentially solved if I can be consistent, but part of my problem is I can't be consistent. It's a disease that keeps me from helping myself.

And the 12-step guys tell me I have acknowledge I have a disease that will never go away, while the therapists, and they're well known, tell me that's not true, they know of people that have gotten past their addictions. And this rabbi tells me all I need is to make a systems of punishments (that wasn't even close), and this one tells me the groups are good, and this one tells me not. And it's all a big swarm in my head, so much negativity. I don't act nice to my friends, not in a serious way. I don't do the serious things, even what I like to do, because I'm so used to the movies, whatever gets me away from life. I'm not living right now.

And even this right now, this thing of me posting, it's very real, but it feels fake. Cuz I can't feel anything. This feels like it's for sure going to fail. And everyone else has the problem but not really, not the way I do. There are so many "shoulds" in my head, so much pressure. And people thing they know and they don't, cuz they can't really relate, and even the people that can, I hear them, and I calm down, and I go right out there again. I can't keep commitments anymore because I have no idea what I'll be doing tomorrow. I'm working on getting a job so I can get back into therapy but I'm scared I'm just gonna spend it all on lust. That's unlikely, but I'm scared. Everybody got married (I'm older and still single). Everybody got into learning (I can't commit to the seders).

I don't know anything. I'm not trying to. I just want this to be over. And they tell me "just do this," and I do it, but that whatever comes into my mind and I stop, and I throw it all away again.

I'm not trying to bring anyone down. I just don't know anything anymore.

Hey,

I'm not sure exactly what to write here because you asked that no solutions be given. So in lieu of that, I would just like to say that I understand your despair, and that you should just know that there are many guys on here (like me), who went from acting out multiple times daily for many many years, to living happy clean lives.

There's no one way to achieve this.

May you find the way that works for you, quickly!

Hatzlacha!

I agree with "skeptical" that "There's no one way to achieve this." What works for some of us won't work for others and fakert.Right now-the most important thing is that you are with a chevra that recognize that porn and masturbation are addictions that have to be confronted and dealt with -with a means that will work for you.

Welcome,

Bein' that you were 'here' a few years, and yet, this is the first time you're postin' - that itself tells me somethin'. What it tells me or you, I don't know, but it seems like a positive development.
I was in this predicament for several decades....an extremely long time. Granted some of that time was just pleasure with no real struggle to stop, but there were many, many times that I tried, but to no avail.
suggestions - i have none.
Like it was said above - you are among friends...ain't nobody here that's gonna be judgmental.

b'hatzlachah friend

Welcome to the forum! I don't think you're bringing anyone down. I do have a question, which you can answer if you want to or not. Of the many solutions you have in your head, which ones have you fully implemented and where do you think they failed you? In an effort to be honest, and I've only been around AA for 20 months and SA for 6, I have yet to see even one person who has failed that has fully followed the program. That's not to say that every person who has fully followed the program has succeeded; there is no way I could testify to that.

Its amazing how honest you were in your post. We're all in this together and we're rooting for you. You can do it!

Welcome

The only thing I can tell you is that many guys have felt in total disarray and despair and yet got it together in a way they never dreamed of.

Hung in there buddy and follow the lead of those on this forum.

Shomer bro, Do you have a thread? I see you have 90 days, is that recent or from before? I only ask but I didn't see you on the 90 day chart or wall of fame and I wasn't sure if congrats were newly in order or not.

Hey everyone. Thanks for responding, it was very nice to wake up to all the kind words. I'm not feeling so bad right now, it comes and goes. That's the hardest part to me, is the emotions that come along with this, the angry, depression, the being fragile at what people say and do. Like I know some people feel guilty religiously, I don't know, I've never felt like G-d looks at me as "bad." I know He's rooting for me.

I would really like to here what worked for all of you guys. I like the line "there's no one way to do this" that some of you said, because that's what I've seen. I've seen people in SA get there and not get there, and I've seen people in just therapy get there and not, and some people just through speaking with a rebbe. Everything helps I guess. The best results I got were in IFS therapy, I just have to get a job in order to afford to continue, which is itself a challenge, but I'm trying.

So if anyone can please message me further about what's worked for them, that would be great.

Thanks guys,
Danny

GYE
Step 4
Openin' up to real people
therapists
Prayin'
Readin'
Postin'
Filters
SA meetin's
Phone calls
12 steps
Step 4

b'hatzlachah

Same list for me as cordnoy.

To add a bit:

- Someone once told me not to give up on life. His father gave up on life and it hurt him. He said if not for my sake, do it as example for my children.

- Someone else told me that I need to get out of myself. To get involved in community projects, to help at shul, volunteer at a soup kitchen etc. The more involvement with other and the community at large the better. He also told me

- The situation I'm in now is where I'm supposed to be, or at least it's where I am and there is nothing I can do about it. I can pity myself for being in it and squander the time or I can accept it as life and see what opportunities I can find therein.

- Not to be cliche but, I try not to shut the door on the past, but I try not to dwell on it either.

- steps 1-3

- Knowing that, I'm not unique

- Understanding that I'm powerless



I just want to say, and I pray that this comes from Hashem, when your therapist says she has seen addicts overcome addiction, who says they were real addicts or that their disease was very progressed? The AA Big Book maintains that some us believe we could have stopped early on. Many talk about the switch over from drinking for pleasure and alcoholic drinking. Addict is a big word and gets thrown around a lot. It would seem to me that any "Anonymous" program would say the disease of addiction is progressive. So I don't have to travel all the way down the road that some have, but I will end up there if I continue to use. So not to exclude anyone (because I thinks that's dangerous - although some may argue the integrity of the program of SA comes first) but if some guy is masturbating to porn once a day for 10 years and there is no progression, he's probably not an addict. I hear there is a big contention here on GYE, if the fact that you are averting your religious beliefs alone is enough to claim powerlessness and unmanageability and I don't think we need to get into that. To me all of this I'm saying is really just academic. I think the best advice is pick a plan and do it! If it doesn't work try another plan, but really work it. Way too much theorizing amongst our people.

Hatzlacha!!!

Hatzlacha!

At the urging of my Eshes Chayil who knew about my addictions for years and then confronted me to deal with it as an issue of Shalom Bayis, I tossed every piece of a huge stack of porn and sought a therapist. I then found this amazing website and realized that the events that drove me to porn and masturbation were insignificant and that B"H, I had a lot in life to be thankful for-a wonderful wife, great kids and eineklach and amazing friends. I then realized that I had to make every minute count from the time that I get up in the morning until I hit the sack at night. So far, it is worked for over 600 days-for me-the key is to avoid visual or emotional triggers whether on the street, the subway or elsewhere. I think that I am not alone here in stating that when your head is wrapped up and addicted to the twin fantasies of porn and masturbation, your desire for normal marital relations goes downhilll. In contrast, when you focus on normal marital relations, you probably won't need a prescription for Viagra.

Why not contact a therapist on the website? Perhaps, a therapist can see you and give you a financial break if you mention that you are on GYE.

I appreciate what everyone is saying. I want to answer to a few things. First, about a therapist, there is a particular therapist I was going to, and it was going well, so I plan on continuing that, and his fee is firm. It's work it to know I'm working with someone that gets results (I've been to plenty of therapists that should probably get other jobs).

I hear what was said about avoiding triggers, and I'm glad that works for you, but my experience has shown me that emotional triggers are what gets me, and that will come no matter what. Also, my lust is out of control, I can become attracted to a curvy tree.

In response to serenity's post, I'm glad you've found what works for you, but you have to understand, 12-step belief and process is not the only way out there. I know that's what the groups say, I was there. But their argument makes no sense (any yeshiva guy will tell you): What defines a real addict? He needs the groups. What if he got better without the groups? Then he wasn't a real addict. Totally circular. I've spoken to people that have gotten better in other ways, and I've seen plenty of people in the groups who have not gotten better. I don't believe G-d is limited in his ways of healing people, so it doesn't really bother me. The tons of material on this website shows the different ways. My point is, there's no need to discount other methods, just pray that everyone find their right way that works for them (myself included).

dantheman2885 wrote:

I haven't been to groups, but my understanding is that the exact definition of an addict is a lot more complex, and is up to each person to decide for himself. I haven't heard from too many SA members here that the defining characteristic of an addict is whether or not he can recover without groups. Additionally, many people wiser than myself have said that the 12 steps and 12 step groups can help even non-addicts.
Not taking a personal position here, I just think that the oversimplification is unwarranted.