Hello all,

I want help and I want to grow but I feel uncomfortable in the GYE twelve-step framework. Both the twelve-step process and the individual steps themselves resonate with me, but the idea of ‘sobriety’ bothers me to the core.

I’m a Yid. I’m not an addict. My Yetzer Hara is an addict. When I use the language of sobriety I associate with the sickness and I don’t want to consider misbehavior as the baseline. At my core I’m a Neshama. When I say I’m ‘not drunk/acting out’ that’s not saying what I am it’s saying what I’m not. It makes me feel I’m always going uphill and I understand that b’emes that’s the reality of this world. But I don’t want to give in to this world because b’emeser emes this world is upside down and really it’s all down hill.

I know I have my own issue feeling okay with myself while recognizing I have work to do. This email is written as ‘an answer’ but I’d like to ask it as ‘a question.’ How do I frame my process? How can I acknowledge my weak points without identifying with them?

A second connected question. How do I draw the line to between being honest with where I’m holding and protecting myself from falling. Example: I unfortunately live in a house at the moment that has a television. You can’t go five minutes without finding overt sexual material or storylines which force the viewer to fill in the off camera sexual content. But on the other hand, I need a break every so often and I’m in a place with few friends and social outlets so I need something with which to unwind. I don’t think most people would be so aware of the subtle krumkeits on today but I have a hyper sensitive and critical frum filter in my head that keys in on all forms of nareshkeit and it’s hard to find something with zero red flags. I think it’s important for me to run to kedusha not just flee from shmutz but I have a very hard time doing that when I feel that wherever my eyes turn I’m surrounded by tumah. I’m looking to find that sweet spot where I can be osek in avodas Hashem in a healthy fashion while protecting myself from taivah.

Hi! Welcome to GYE!

With regards to the whole "Twelve Step Religion".

As long as I'm working on "understanding" myself, and understanding "people" and categorizing and "figuring out". And working around the "Yetzer Hora".

Guess what?!


HE HAS ME WRAPPED AROUND HIS FINGER!!!

Because the Yetzer Hora is older and wiser than all of us put together.

The reason I went for the twelve steps was because I'm very smart. And a big philosopher. And a big Talmid Chacham.

Nothing worked for me.

I despaired.

Then I noticed that some people have long term sobriety.

They claimed to have achieved this following a simple program. [Not an easy one, not by any means, a simple one].

I wanted to know how this program worked. I asked them. They taught me.

It is not an issue of semantics. Of what language is used.

These people follow a program of actions.

Their life is one of actions. Not of thoughts and philosophizing.

I hope I answered your question.

Honestly, I could have written this exact post a year ago. I've written many similar.


I was reading the Big Book yesterday, and this is what it says:


"MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we
were real alcoholics. No person likes to think
he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows.
Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers
have been characterized by countless vain attempts
to prove we could drink like other people. The idea
that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his
drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal
drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing.
Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves
that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery.
The delusion that we are like other people, or
presently may be, has to be smashed."




So, yeah, unfortunately if you're a sex/porn/masturbation addict/ Your yetzer hora is an addict/ Good Yid who can't control his sexual behaviour.....whatever you want to call it, and you want to get better, you're going to have to alter your conceptions just a little bit.

You know what, there is no contradiction between being an addict and being a good Yid.

There is also no contradiction between the 12 steps and being a good Yid.

But no-one here is going to force you to work the steps, or call yourself a sexaholic.

So stick around and tell us more about yourself. Who knows, it might even help!

Welcome to GYE!!!

Firstly, I strongly recommend Skep's tips They have helped me a lot.

Secondly, we are quite similar! I also live in a house with a TV and I have my whole life. I made a neder and i haven't watched TV or movies in about 3 months thank God! Of course its not just an ordinary neder cause that can get as its to trouble. You can message me and i can tell you more.

Also, I too have few friends. I live in a small Jewish community with no Frum guys my age. So it gets tough and lonely.

Anyhow, welcome and its great to have you!

IshChamudos wrote:


Good news! There is a sweet spot where you can be osek in avodas Hashem in a healthy fashion without any taivah whatsoever. Check out the first chapter of Mesilas Yeshorim. He explains that Hashem created man for the sole purpose of taking pleasure and basking in the glory of Hashem's holiness. The place where this is experienced is known as Gan Eden. And the way to get there is by passing the tests that we are given in this world.

Hatzlacha in your journey.

MT

Welcome! Stick around. You are in the right place. Check out the handbook and some of the other links in my signature.

GYE is not about the 12 steps. It's about addicts (or just peple with a pesky "problem" ) helping one another.

Learn from the handbook and from the people on the forum. See what works for you. There is not just one derech. The 12 step derech happens to be effective for addicts. Many people that could not be helped any other way, have been helped through 12 step programs. But it is not the ONLY way.

Welcome to GYE, IshChamudos!!

We're all in the same boat here, lots of good Jews working on trying to live better lives....which brings me to the point,

What are we looking for? Are we looking to be called the right thing? or are we looking to stop behaviors that we are upset about doing, yet we can't stop them?

I spent quite some time using chizzuk and all else that I'm really great and Hashem has the greatest pleasure from every second that I put up a fight etc. and it's all true!! BUT I WASN'T HAPPY!!! That's not how Hashem really intends life to be, frustrating, sad, disappointing, tense!! There is a much better life out there, and I am finding that it may come with the "price" of being labeled an addict.....who cares?

You deserve that better life, and you can find it!!

Read the Handbook, there are a lot of good practical tools in there.

You might also want to tell us more about your problem, we can only help with information that we know.

Stick around, post away, and KOT!!!