I know it is hard to open up and I am not going to jump into this issue.

I do worry that we have not heard from Nachson in quiet a while.

Hi All,

Sorry for disappearing for a bit....combination of crazy work schedule and stepping back to see the value of GYE for ME.

A bit of an update...on the positive side first. I have spoken to my sponsor a few times over the last month or so...shared a lot of what I have done....that sounds too much like a confession vs the beginning of one of the steps to recovery (realness). I did participate in a couple of phone conferences with actual live human beings....it was a bit choppy but still worthwhile...and No I didn't die of embarrassment. I do plan I joining Dovs next cycle...anyone know when it begins?

I struggle with what is next for me. I have made strides no longer meeting/ talking to others (did have old friend meet once...but was able to literally run away)...wish it was like the movies....where I was the hero...did have a bit of a slip but was able to pull away before really went down with the ship.

I am "down" to just PN and MB...is crazy...but my new thing is I can be working...and the thought pops into my head...I shut off my brain and will get a quick one out before the clarity hits of what the hell did I just do/am doing again.

I am trying to still stay on the positive so I can define it as such...my lows are not as low (not meeting/talking)...but still have slips (hate using that word)....because it sounds like I accidently did something...when I know the intention is there. In the back of my mind...I worry not that the frame has shifted (i.e I am just as sick as before)...but I am just riding a lower cycle...does that make sense?

Back to my step back from GYE...while everyone is really well meaning...how many really have the ability to lead me out of this dark place. Encouragement KOT and the like is nice...but I dont see that as a path for me to make serious changes to beat this sickness.

Is GYE just a way for me to feel better after MB....that I am taking "concrete actions"....as DOV usually preaches (correctly)...need real steps. I have been dipping my toe into realness...haven't made the jump to attending a meeting...do I need the meeting? Keep telling myself NO....as just too hard a step for me right now.

My sponsor has been great...he is so knowledgeable/caring/sincere...etc as he has come through the other side of his journey but he seems to be sponsoring many others and has about as much free time as I do.

I am hopeful...and thankful for this forum...just need to get on a true path to fixing this mess!

Nachshon


Sparky no worries I know you meant well...apology accepted.

Nachshon wrote:


Sorry to break it to you, but nobody has the ability to lead you out of this dark place, except yourself. You are the one who needs to decide what is the path for you to make serious changes to beat this sickness. Everyone is different, and what works for one does not necessarily work for others. You know yourself best, and you need to see what works for you.

GYE can offer you ideas, encouragement (KOT, KOMT etc.) and much camaraderie; but ultimately it's all up to you. If you feel inadequate and indecisive, why not ask Hashem to lead you in the right path. He's helped so many, so it's worth a try.

Hatzlacha and a Happy Purim

MT

there is an AA saying that I am about to butcher, but it goes something like this
"thoughts without action are dead"

will someone please tell me how it really goes.

The point is that all the posting in the world will not save me. Only once I take action then God will Save me.

"Faith without works is dead" (Big book page 76)

Look at Rashi on Parshas Vayishlach where Yaakov Avinu is described in engaging in both Tefilah and Hsihtadlus. One without the worth simply won't work.

Machsoros....I have asked god to help me beat this...and either hes not listening to me...or the tools hes given me haven't worked. Of course I made the decision to stop this a thousand times...each time a fail?

I agree words without actions are just air....I am not looking to defend my self...but I have taken real action....have a sponsor I have been really open with....was on a real call...I am jealous of my sponsor and I pick his brain how was he able to just flip the switch...he uses terms like giving up the battle and turning to god? others? the program? When we speak it just seems like words that I don't truly understand the meaning....How can he have "won" the battle while I am still in a daily grind?

Then I question am I not smart enough to realize this is horrible? Believe in god enough to know someday I will answer for all this? Have the will power enough to just stop?

I know right after its over clarity sets in and a sense of personal disappointment washes over me?

SO the answer I am hearing is real action...dipping my toe in these waters and not as scary as I thought it would be. I think the problem is I dip in when I feel like I want to...there is no solid commitment yet.

Thanks again for the encouraging words...they really do mean a lot.

I hear your frustration. Do you have others to talk to as well or is it just your sponsor. I have found that talking to other people on GYE helps a lot. It helps me clarify principles and just lets me share. It also helps me build incredible relationships. Why don't you chat with a couple people and see where it goes?

Obviously you have gained a lot from the relationship you have with your sponsor. But since something is still missing for you, I'd ask you if your sponsor has clearly described his own personal struggles including past or present porn use and what kind of porn; his own masturbation or sex use history including where, when, and with whom; and perhaps even admitted to you if there are problematic sexual desires that he has had or harbor and caused/still cause him difficulty in his own marriage for example (if he is married)...and precisely what he did and does about them on a daily basis.

If you and your sponsor have not yet clarified to each other exactly what each of your sexual acting out histories are in detail, then you have little indeed to work from, I guess. It would be like a rebbi/talmid relationship, and that is not what AA called 'sponsor'. A sponsor is just one powerless addict sharing his own imperfect but successful recovery with his sponsee. And that's why it works, when it does. No?

In addition (I almost wrote 'in addiction'!), I'd ask if you have met in person yet. If not, I'd ask why not. And the answer to that will tell a bit about the commitment you refer to, both with respect to your own commitment to your own recovery, as well as regarding his commitment to recovery.

Perhaps your relationship you two have is powerful and deep. But when a new guy reports vagueness and frustrated wonder about exactly what the answers offered mean, I find over and over again that there is precious little action being taken in the recovery relationship - it is about 'theory of recovery'. 'Member Stories' in the back of AA, and printed by SA are the way sponsorship works - they describe the power of vulnerability and self-exposure by the sponsor in helping suffering addicts. In contrast, sincere discussion about recovery just falls short. I call that faith/love without real action/devotion.

And that seems to be the AA way from the very start: one powerless and hopeless - but sober - addict, sharing his own recovery (not wisdom) with another equally powerless and hopeless person. If that is what you have been getting, Nachshon, then I am happy for you - but happier still for your sponsor. For he will gain more than you do!

Anybody here experienced the same?

DMS/Dov thank you both for your insights....

I pondered my frustration a bit last night (and during my morning run)....I think the frustration stems from the fact that I have been for so long "suffering/enjoying" the (not sure right word here..."lusting/acting out"...in silence...with no one to be accountable to....and only myself to discuss in my own mind...how I will stop....when I finally tasted a real path...I have unrealistic expectations that...I should be "cured" quickly...but in reality...I have just got to the starting line in this life long race.

All the past attempts I have made...were just me trying to fight the demons inside me....I had incredible peaks and low valleys....but the truth is I was not really even in the race to win...more like delusional that I had the ability to win. My delusion stems from my ability to be successful in all other aspects of life...why not here? I guess this is the first step...realization that I can not beat this alone. I have the ability to tamper up or down...thus the cycles I have been on for so many years. When hitting the lows (meeting other people)....I have in the past binged and then snapped back to sobriety....then P/M...to advancing on the continuum....until the cycle starts again.

Dov, I think you are spot on (like usual)...I need to make more of an effort....have some kind of set schedule to check in with sponsor...a few phone calls seem like a great start but by no means a true sponsor/sponsee relationship...I will pursue this during my next conversation...I hope he has the time for something like this.

DMS...I do feel the person I am speaking to has a deep knowledge and understanding of this affliction...having been sober for more than a decade. He has a keen insight into human nature and more importantly I feel like we can connect.

Thanks again

Thinking about addiction , an d even acknowledging it, without acting in a positive way and realizing that you are vulnerable to a variety of triggers, is as Dov points out, the difference between going through the motions of recovery and really realizing why you are an addict, is that you have to realize that when youy are engaging in either masturbation or reading, downloading and watching pron, you are engaging in addictive behavior.

Nachshon wrote:

a real realization of this is no small feat
(worthy of a kiddush or at least a lechayim)

Very happy fr you, Nachshon. It sounds to me that u r taking some real actions of recovery that will pay off in the long run. Now, sorry if you feel this is 'getting in your face' or none of my business (which is certainly true), but my recovery tells me this is very relevant to ask, regarding the realness and quality of the actions we r talking about:

Have you met your sponsor in person yet? If so, you are very lucky.

Hi Dov/All....

I picked up the virtual gloves you threw down and did reach out for my sponsor and attempted to meet last week....he lives out of NYC and is in town rarely...we tried to connect on his last trip but scheduling did not work....I did make a real effort though....

Have I taken any real steps towards beating this...is a question I keep coming back to....on the positive...I have finally admitted to another human being what I have done....had several honest conversations with someone that really understood what I am going through...all good....but just doesn't seem like enough?

Yes...the thought of meeting and speaking to someone about this 6 months ago would have been a non starter...crossed that bridge....but now what....the beat goes on?

Have my good days and bad ones....stressed at work....get a few minutes to myself after a long day....rationalize...why not...do so much good...work so hard does it really matter?

Still trapped in this vicious cycle I cant escape from...don't have the tools....not sure where/how to get them...other than a meeting....really want to try everything else before I get to that point.

Am I making a true effort....what is a true effort? SO busy with life....



Good night all...