I know I keep going on about this, but I realized that I have turned all females into goddesses
And the ugly ones or prude ones are rebelling against my religion,

The ancients tried all sorts of black magic to get their idols to move and what not, but I don't need anything as they all walk and talk on their own!

I mentioned that I would talk about the eigel.

I think the Ramban explained that the calf itself was not the issue, it was to replace Moshe, and had a good source to be used, it was the attitude the people took when worshipping it, and the real sin was later when Moshe said mi lashem eilay and only the levi'im got up to protect hashems name,

Just like sex which can be good, if our attitude changes we are able to turn it into an avodah Zara

Thanks for sharing your original Torah thoughts.

guy wrote:


Why do you describe the sweetest, most pleasurable thing in your life a "hell hole?"

Thinking this stuff over is very important....but the thing that makes real changes is taking real actions of recovery that are not so comfortable. Just 'not' doing the bad stuff is nice, but 'not' only does but so much - it's not enough. It's the doing right stuff for recovery/improved living that is what really counts. Hatzlocha to all of us to take good actions today.

AlexEliezer


Because up till now ( or at least a few months ago ) that's the way I saw it. I had tried hundreds of times to get out of it, only to slide back in a few days/weeks/months later. The frustration, depression and anger, that's the "hell hole".
A few months ago I got so fed up with the battle and with god that I decided I've had enough. I threw in the towel. No davening. No Teffilin. No brachos. I was even mechalel shabbos. Rosh Hashana I didn't daven. On Yom Kipur I fasted but didn't go to shule. I did everything that I could to strike back without hurting my family. So they don't know how far I went. My wife thinks that some days I don't have time to daven, but that's all. I allowed myself to watch porn whenever I wanted.

So now I'm stuck. I know that without my wife I would be miserable and lonely. But that's the way I feel on an average day anyway. I'm so tired of fighting.Losing.Fighting.Losing.
I guess that's the Hell Hole.

Hey Guy, understood. Can I send you a PM or email?

Sure

guy wrote:


Thanks for clarifying. I think I get it now.
You want to overcome this nisayon but your history is that every time you've tried, you failed. So why bother trying.

The answer is to try something completely new. Recovery.

Stop fighting.

In recovery we learn to surrender out lust to Hashem and ask him to take it from us, one day at a time (sometimes one moment at a time) so we can live. How? Just say it. In your own words. "I surrender my lust to You, please take my lust." Every time.

We do our hishtadlus (part, effort). Realizing that we are powerless over lust, as evidenced by our 100% failure rate when we get into the ring and fight it, we avoid all lustful stimuli by aggressively guarding our eyes and our minds. (This would include not checking out your own wife for a quick thrill outside the bedroom.)

We also work on recognizing the uncomfortable feelings that drive us to escape into the world of porn.

We work on getting back into real life. Talking to real people face to face -- not necessarily about this. About stuff. About life. Get back into enjoying real life.

It would also be hugely helpful if you could talk, at least on the phone, about what's going on for you regarding this nisayon.

Stay with us bro. I sense good things coming.

Alex

AlexEliezer wrote:

I have felt the absence of Hashem at times. He can do "Hester Panim", hiding his face, when he does not want to see bad things.
I literally felt an absence of Hashem for a couple of seconds.

But at the Kotel, and in Yerushalayim, and in the cave of Eliyahu Hanevi in Haifa, I felt His presence.

I think that if attacked by lust, know that there is something inside that is unfulfilled in another are of your life. The lust is a drug to blot out that other something.

George999 wrote:

He sees everything always. Good, bad, and ugly.

And he still loves us through it all. Even the ugly .

Please explain, George999 ( I like saying it fast the Spanish way, it's more fun! - Horheynuevenuevenueve!)

What exactly do you mean when you write that you are "attacked by lust"? How does it attack you?

Thanks compadre',

Dov

"Lust" attacks when I am down.
When I am tired, weak and not happy.

I feel so not happy that I cannot handle the emotional pain.

Masturbation and looking at porn gives temporary relief from this pain.

I have heard it said that this pain is from Hashem, it is the pain of a sin being replaced by Teshuvah, that it is the combined punishment for the sin and the treatment for it, that purifies and cleanses the soul.

I consider lust to "attack" because it is not rational, I always regret the masturbation and looking at porn more after I do them, than the pleasure I got from doing them.

This article explains my problem very well:

guardyoureyes.com/the-12-steps/item/psychological-factors-in-sexual-acting-out

George999


How can it be the pain of sin being replaced if it just causes you (me,us) to sin again?
I was taught that teshuva replacing sin should be a good feeling, true it is mixed with the feeling of pain of having done wrong, but on the whole it is supposed to be a good feeling, not one that makes us run back to the "shmutz"?
I read the article you mentioned, but I can't really use it much for myself.
There are so many variables and so many options/reasons why a person would seek out porn mentioned in that article. I guess the point of that article is to understand that the problem is rooted in a Psychological factor, but it doesn't help with identifying said factor.

The part that I did find interesting is the end where he speaks about the anger that an addict can feel towards God. Because that is exactly what I feel. And that is the reason why I have a very hard accepting what AlexEliezer

How can I surrender ANYTHING to him when he's the one who put me here in the first place!!?

I'll mention the preciousness of my own pain in a minute, be"H, but first:

The way I see it is that I chose to run after sweet porn because it was my pacifier, my true trusted buddy to make me feel 'things are OK' - my sha'ashuim. This was chosen by me as a teenager and continued into my adulthood getting far worse after marriage, of course. But my choices are my own, my responsibility. Not Hashem's.

I am an addict, and believe that I would have been challenged in some other way no matter what. If not for putting my trust in sex with myself and porn goddesses, I would have put it in obsessive Torah learning, alcohol, raging fits, or power. Maybe I would be stam another mental case in an asylum - but I found my niche in porn and fantasy, that's all. For I am doomed to be something like an addict - as the G'morah says clearly regarding someone born under ma'adim: "he will have to either be a murderer or a shochet or mohel." The good or evil resolution of it is the man's own bechirah, Hashem just gave him a tevah or netiyah. And I clearly have mine (and it includes black-and-white thinking, thinking too much, and controlling my thinking too much, among other defects).

A harder challenge? Perhaps! But Hashem does that all the time with everyone: this one he makes poor, this one wealthy, this one sick and this one healthy, etc. Hashem did not make me a sex and lust addict - I did.

But so many of the masturbaters are not addicts at all! They just have a yetzer hora and a penis to use it with. That's every man's battle. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with 'addiction'. But I digress...

Rather than being stuck obsessing with figuring out 'the root cause' of my addiction and who (or Who) is responsible, or whether I am and will burn in Gehinom or will not, recovery asks me to accept the present and grow up by moving on and learning to live right,today.

I write these words specifically to 'George999' (nuevenuevenueve!) for you seem to be wallowing in it, chaver.

You may not have to. But you may choose to believe you do - that's not in my purvey.

Let go of your hell, your future and your past - let go of blaming and even caring about blame - and accept responsibility on yourself to do whatever it takes to learn to live right today. It is not easy, I know, but it does not require complex mental figuring. It requires some simple, uncomfortable steps and actions done one day at a time. Addicts the world over are doing it every day without genius required.

The only requirement is having enough pain.

Maybe you have that, it seems... I know I do. So I am here with you. My wisdom or goodness did not bring me here. My pain did.

And to Guy, I would like to just say that Hashem obviously loved me so much while I was on my knees in that bathroom desperately masturbating myself all those times. For while I was doing that, He worked out all the tools I would need for recovery into a life that is so sweet, beautiful, and useful today. He did not do that for me after I got well - but before! He also brought me to recovery and helped me stay in it, through all the tough times and my failures. He arranged the friends I'd need. He obviously loves me and my wife and children and carries me well today even though I do not deserve it.

And I believe that I needed every single masturbation and sexual encounter I took, in order to finally break and get to the point that I could find recovery. Why does it work that way? None of my business.

So I have no bitterness about it - and I don't bother to stir my cup to see what the dregs taste like, as you are, it seems. No need. I have hurt enough by my own hand. Time for letting go and finding G-d through humility, rather that through demanding Him - or insisting upon creating my own god of orgasm and sweet fantasy...I did that for years. Pain. My way does not work - even my way in yiddishkeit. Recovery is about letting go of the way that fails me - my way.

But that takes either enough humility - or enough humiliation. He lets us choose - is that cruel? I do not think so. It's our choice, if we are addicts. What do you choose?

If you wish to speak on the phone about any of this stuff, please send me a PM and we'll talk it over. You make a lot of good points and i hope nothing I wrote insults either Guy or yourself.

Hatzlocha today!

- Dov