Some of it may just be habbit. Also, if there is a void, something has to fill it. Fill yourself with positive things (learning, a hobby, exercise, socializing with friends) and there will be less of a void.

Your a good DUDE, you are sincere and you are searching for truth and meaning and overcoming amazingly challenging difficulties. One day we will see what all this sex stuff was for, why we felt all that stimulation, excitment, curiosity, and shame. But for now, we live in this world of work, and the knowledge of the supernal realm is for G_D. All we can do is work to overcome all of our challenges, and for us its starting with sex. Thats IT!!! I suggest you sign up for the 90 day chart, make a commitment to G-D 90 days and ask HIM for the help!!! One day at a time you will reach your Goal. I am on day 32 today and everyday when I wake up I ask G-D for one more day to be relieved of my lust addiction. When these feelings of guilt and shame come up from my past , I try not to dwell on them bec I am powerless over there strength and they will only destroy me, I am not fighting a battle of overcoming my past mistakes, I am working now in the present to change and I believe G_D will make all right if I trust in HIM!!!

I MUST post what just happened when I wrote the post right b4 this one I was in the car and mamesh falling I actually had "things" open on the other tab and I thought I already lost the battle I thought I'll get inside and be able to Finnish off so to speak but BH I posted and then came in side and was able to close off the porn and move on with my day without falling. Wow bh I feel like I could breath!

Thanx Gibbur very true.
Thanx YC for your encouraging words I want you to know that your earlier post might of been the thing that saved me b4. Thanx.

Thats awesome! It feels good to know that I could have helped someone because I feel like I am drowning in a sea of confusion myself. Its nice to know that Im not alone in this obsession. What I do know is that once I start I cant stop and I am scared to go back to the emptiness I once felt. I am hurting really bad today and it is hard as hell and I question every turn and new descion and want to act out and return to my old lustful habits , justifying that I deserve a lil pleasure and whats the harm, but ONE THING IS VERY TRUE!!!! I DONT feel that emptiness today, that shame and guilt, its just hard because I dont know who the new me IS!!!!! I am glad you proved to yourself that with G-Ds help you were successful in one moment. Many more my friend

It's less than a week so I figured this is a good place for this. Wow wow what an interesting last few days ups and downs kinda like a roller coaster but thanx to Hasham and GYE I'm happy to say that yesterday was a good day. I was so excited knowing that I could post this, this morning. A good report and that helped me get through the last part and the hard part of the day knowing that there are people out there who care and will listen. That meant the world to me. last night I was able to have a good night with out any of the Schmutz and knowing I could post THIS this morning really helped. I got the idea of learning Meseilas Yishorim from a post yesterday and pushed myself to do it although it was late and I had an excuse that I need to get up I early in the morning to learn. This morning when davening I was able to face Hasham knowing that I own one small battle and I davened for myself by Refoaino one of the things I've learned since coming to the site is to realize that this is only a problem I have but a sickness although it's my fault that I got to this point. It is also my job to get out of it. So I asked Hashem for help for a cure for my sickness to gove me the strength to be able to cure myself to get though the cure. Then instead of running out after Sheina Esry I stayed and said the long tachnim and asked Hasham for forgiveness. Its amazing how much better I feel this morning and its great to finally using the Internet for good for finding inspiration from the site and for posting and getting chizuk and for giving chizuk and to download shuirim to listen the car. All I could say is thank you thank you thank you Hasham and thank you GYE and thank you to all the members who I know are out there who are out there letting me know I'm not alone in this. A special thank you to all of you who took the time to write thank you. You don't what a chizuk in is to see that people care enough to write and follow your progress and to give advise. What a chizuk to check my email and see there are post and messages waiting for me on GYE Thank You. Today is going to be a good day no today is going to be a great day one day one day at a time!!!!!!!!!!

Well done.

It is very inspirational to see a true soldier of Hashem go marching forward.

Onwards, my friend...

Oyyvey27 wrote:


Gevaldig!

Mesilas Yeshorim is a 12-step approach - from Torah to Techiyas Hamaisim (see the hakdamah).

Hatzlacha in your journey

MT

I'm copying a post I just put on "I think I'm going to fall"
Right now I need all the help I could get
Thanx Guys

Will I ever be free ? Will I ever get over this? Will my mind stop always be turning to lust to porn to get out of "life" for a few minutes? Will I ever not what to turn to porn when I come home after a long a exhausting day and have a few minutes of quite? Will life (or at least life how I want life or maybe how life's meant to be) always be a struggle?? Maybe I need to give in except what my matsov us and try to live with it? At least not get so caught up in fighting it that it takes over? Takes so much koach out of me? Yea it sounds like a " cop out" to me to But at least I'll be living the rest of the time. Granted life's not good with watching porn and masturbation but maybe if I accept it and try to to let it bother me it won't so much. Why why why.

Please set me straight

I know a lit if this sounds crazy and I should "man up" and deal with the problem not except to the point that I believe it will or it can't ever change so I could keep on doing it.

I know but right now I'm not sure which I really believe
I'm not sure what's in my "heart"

day started good
Win one battle in the afternoon.
Fought but lost the 2nd

Failure
Now down in the dumps
Don't dwell on it
Pull yourself together and forged forwards
Pray
To some good
Don't let everything go down the drain
Get out of the gutter, you don't belong there
But I don't feel close to G-D
True
But G-d is right here with you
Reach out just reach out and join him

Oyyvey27 wrote:


Dear 'Oyyvey27',

I've been away a while, so I guess here is a big one...

I am reading this last page or two of this thread. Great stuff. A lot of great questions and sharing in the last post above, and so much to talk over. But one thing in particular strikes me:

You use the good term, 'to man up'. Others here also describe the bitter struggle to achieve 'real resolve', 'real surrender', 'real etc'. And yet here people are, posting their hearts out online - but perhaps only because of the safety of a purely virtual world. And using fake names. And hiding behind a computer...and asking "why, why why?", begging for relief. For me and others here it's like watching a nasty boxing match where the hero we love (that's you!) is blindfolded; and we wince with each terrible punch he takes. How long ought we bother watching the losing battle? He is losing and can't win this way. When will we finally just turn away? Is watching that ship sink, 'love'? I doubt it.

I am not saying GYE/the forum are a waste of time - quite the contrary. They are precious and the last great hope for so many. But I am saying that it is not enough for some who are here. It is a tool - a stepping stone to the stuff some of us need in order to gain real change.

The boxer has got to take off the blindfold. But how are we to really do that? How to make it all real - how to 'man up'?

My personal experience is that Hashem is 100% right and we are 100% wrong. We fight in hiding and try to squeeze ourselves into submission with our thinking and 'hard inner work'. But He teaches us through His many mitzvos and actions that we need more than ourselves. That we cannot succeed in the comfort of our own living rooms or batei midrash. 'Cherev el habadim', the gemorah says - and 'oh chavrusa oh misusa'. We remain as sick as our secrets - if we have no real people with us with whom we are opening up to fully and freely, without shame. It's just the truth, that's all.

Madreigos and intensity of religious feeling is not where it is at, I figure. I have had loads of them all during the years of my rabid acting out (and I could go right back out there, too, c"v). I don't need higher - I need real-er, simpler, calmer. And real, simple, calm trust in Hashem is not found in sforim - and it very rarely comes from learning Torah. Rather, it is found in taking real action. (Otherwise Hashem would not have bothered Avraham Avinu to go through the akaidah! For He knew that Avraham would overcome that test anyway! It must be that action is the only way to change us, so it is inescapable in this world of Asiyoh.) And for action to be real, well, it has to be real.

What's real? Rabban Yochanon ben Zakai told his talmidim (who were tanno'im!) that they consider people far more real than G-d. He said to them when they asked him for a brocha before he died: "May you feel about Hashem being with you just the same way you feel when people are with you/watching you." They did not like that very much and told him so. He then let them in on a dirty little secret we all love to deny: 'Sorry, but we do not take Hashem nearly as seriously as we take people. That's just the way it is.'

So we need to involve people. Simple.

It's the way to Hashem, I believe. And for chronic self-deceivers and nutty addicts like me, there is no other way to Him except through people. And the frummer the porner/masturbater is, the more deceiving he does, of course. The more faking and lying to others and to himself. So there is a need for real action rather that just thinking in the heart. Thinking and 'resolve' were actually our worst enemies! We always felt sure we 'had it this time!'...but the result was nil. Similar to how the RMBa"N explains "b'ficho ubilvov'cho la'asoso" - first in your mouth by openly admitting and speaking about it and only then will it function in your heart. Real-ness is bought through action, not through 'better thinking.

So I do a few things - some of you are already doing these things and some do not. Some may need to, and some may not:

1- I use my real name here and describe what I do to real people and not just in pleasant, respectable generalities or framed in frum terms so they sound like a 'madreigoh'.

2- I openly admit my temptations and challenges when I have them.

3- I use the word 'sex', 'porn', or 'masturbate' with the people I share with - and in my shemoneh esrei to Hashem - as needed. For the last time I checked, Hashem knows all that already - He is not afraid of the literal truth. Were I to feel taken over with obsession about the body of a woman I know at work and end up masturbating with her image and then just say to Him, "Oy, I feel terrible! I lif'amim have tayvos noshim and have even come lidei zera levatolah!", I was mevatel the mitzvah of tefilah - the ikkar mitzvah per the RMB"M, by the way. (For he holds it is for sh'as tzorah, no?)


But what of honesty? Is that not what He really wants? Or does he prefer 'tzniyus'? Better I should use lashon nekiyah (as though He does not know what porn is? Do I say "P" to Him and asume He knows what I mean like some well-meaning guys do here? I think not. Honesty is #1 ingredient for tefilah and relationships. So I gotta be real with Him - my most important and only permanent relationship.

And He gave us the Torah by Sinai as a big group together - no shame between us, like one heart. Why do Chaza"l make a big deal about us all being "k'ish echad b'lev echad"? Why did He want us to be 600,000 plus the rest? Was it just that He would have 'preferred' us to be just one person or two - but was just 'stuck' with a big, huge crowd and 'nu, at least they are unified'? Nahrishkeit. Why not give us all the Torah as individuals, alone with Him, each person in his own little 'cone of silence'?

Face to face is real. Kabolas haTorah HAS to be real.

Well, surrender, recovery work, honesty - they all have to be real, too.

Hope that helps somebody. It sure helps me to remember it all! For I am only OK one day ata time, be"H. It's not about figuring it out, but about living it.

- Dov

I spoke to my therapist about all of this. I put it out there in a private and secure environment a place I know I won't be judge and someone who could really get it. Much like this site! And I think in because of this site that I finally had the the courage to bring it up with him. I but a filter on my phone. I finally feel like I could deal with this addiction. I think it's important to understand addiction to be able to over come it. I was sitting by my therapist and brought it all up and he asked me are you ready to do everything and anything to rid yourself from this addiction and I had a real problem just saying YES. I was thinking can I really get though life without porn? Without masturbation? Can I really do that? I don't want to commit to that and then fall. Lets be honest. ect ect ect
My therapist then explained to me that, that's a addiction. The addiction makes you think that you can't get thur life, thur the day, or whatever situation you in without your addiction. We, I have to understand that we could and as we get thur situations without acting on our addiction we will see that it passes and we're fine. We don't need the addiction to make us feel better or OK. Hashem in his infinite wisdom created us to feel good and the body will correct it self without acting on our addiction if we let it. We actually change our brains as addicts to think we need to addiction to feel right. We, I have to remember that Hasham is in control and he doesn't want me to act on this addiction. And that if I remember that he's in control and surrender the battle to him it will pass and I'll feel fine without the addiction. So that what's going on. It was good to be able to speak to someone about all this. BH I have someone who will walk me thur overcoming this addiction. I will try to keep you guys posted and hope my post are helpful to someone.

I find these type of days realy hard and a real push towards porn towards my addiction. It's that type of day that I'm running arnd for work nothing realy getting done ( not that anything needs to get done). Though I'm doing my job I don't feel like I'm not accomplishing anything. I feel like I could fall off the face of the world for the next few hours and it want really make a difference to anyone. This obviously leaves me feeling depressed, sad and a sense of hopelessness/disappear. This allways pushes me towards my addiction towards porn/masturbation. Please help. I know it doesn't help my situation when I fall in fact it's a terrible cycle. But because its fantasy because it takes me out of reality is why it pulls me.

Please help

I'm going to try to surrender to Hasham to let it all pass because I know I'm turning to porn/masturbation.

Please help
Please be mechazik
I could use all the chizick I could get.

thanks for sharing so openly.
your post gives me chizuk

keep on trucking, things do get better

Your post has hit home. I suffer from the exact same thing. Today is my first day on this site. I posted a new similar topic before I saw yours. I had the same issues as you did in high school. I am following this thread too b/c I can use chizuk. Sometimes I wonder if I really want chizuk. I'm in my high 30's and I still struggle with porn and masturbation.
I had buddies as a kid that started with show me/show you. As we grew up it led to getting each other off. This lasted throughout mesivta. No, I'm not gay. The idea of anal never entered my mind. I'm now married with beautiful children BLA'H and every time a woman passes I sneak a peek and the thought of having her enters my mind.
Alsmost every smonei essray the porn videos play though my mind. Even on Yom Kippur. I hate myself for it and promise never to fall again. That lasts about 2 weeks. Then I binge. I will be in bed watching with head phones until 7:00 in the morning.

You're not alone. I don't know how to open my heart for chizuk anymore. I give my boys pep talks about it and then do it myself at night. For many years I convinced myself that if I keep the sperm inside I'm not doing anything wrong. My rov in shul spoke speaking to our boys about sexuality, abuse in school and camp and masturbation. I sat there shaking my head but inside I knew I am not any better.

I don't know where I'm going with this but I just started typing and didn't stop.
This is strong yetzer hora and many people and rabbis doen't understand it. They get up and yell "men tur nisht" or "the internet is treif". Since they don't have a computer or a basement or a laptop under their covers at night, they have no right to put us down. I promise a lot of you reading this feel the same way. We (I) am stuck in this rut. Sometimes I even look forward to a "good" shower.

I'm in tear now and I must stop typing. I'm going to copy and paste this into my post I started if anyone wants to comment there. I don't want to take away from Oyyvey27.