Hi Mr. Skeptical.Nice post. I am sorry for nor being clear in my post. I could not agree with you more. I agree with every word you said. I agree that there is no free pass to be had and we have to do everything in our power to do the right thing and if my post seemed to twist chasidus to mean anything contrary to that. I regret that. When I wrote Bechira is only when going in a forward motion, I meant to say what you are saying.

Once again, to clarify that my speech is not meant to sound like I am on a pedestal talking down to others chas vsholom and to clarify that I am going thru the exact same issues (and possibly even more difficult situations than others - I will say the following: I have been struggling with these temptations since I was 12 years old - some 20 years ago and still deal with these issues. I was posting things that I was told and which I was privileged to hear from good ehrlich, smart,humble yidden and that I have found that haven given my life and my journey in these matters a positive and fulfilling and joyous and satisfying experience, versus the way it used to feel for me and others, and in turn, makes my journey an EASIER and much more pleasant experience.
If you feel that there needs to me more details and that that would help others more, whereas the way the posts that were being posted thus far is not going to accomplish that - by all means , tell me what details I should post so that my previous posts will accomplish more. Thanks for posting and being there for all- hashem should repay you in all areas.

Son of the King,
I'm sorry for being a bit harsh earlier, but I just wanted to clarify this point. That BEFORE something happens we cannot afford to make Hashem's cheshbonos. Afterwards is a different question. I really don't have patience to go through all of this, I really don't understand how people here write huge megillos, but I'm ready to discuss this with you on the phone or in person.
Tanchum Zeesha

Thank you, sonoftheking, for your clear post. It was refreshing to read. When you write as a real person it makes your words easier to accept.

Thanks again!

Hi Mr tehillimzugger. Thanks for your post.The chasidic seforim write that a person should think all these positive thought continuously thruout the day non-stop as that is how a person is to be fighting hashems battle.These thoughts are our tool,our truth,and our duty and helps us be a ehrliche yid.

It's all good. All He does and Wills is good.

Then just answer the question honestly, in good taste as you see fit. It's not the sordid details that matter, but the simple honesty:




Honesty about what Hashem wants, is not honesty, at all. Also, it's just talk, and talk is cheap. In addition, it will not help you, sonoftheking, if you consider yourself someone who is here for help, as we all are. And if you consider yourself someone who is out of the mud and past this struggle - and only here to help save others, then I am here to suggest that you may help people a lot more efficiently by opening up about your own struggles. We here are already frum - like you are - and preaching to the choir is just not necessary.

So far, I read a lot of facts (about Torah), a lot of wisdom (from the tzaddikim zy"a), and a lot of sweet talk (about how sinning is OK in retrospect). Very nice, but where's the beef?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One consideration you may appreciate, sonoftheking, before I go shluffy, iy"H:

You wrote:




What you got from others (I assume you mean exhortations about the evils of sin from religious people/Rabbis) in the past was negative. You mean that you came to see the terrible damage that condemning sin and sinner does to a yid, right?

I agree that fire and brimstone, talking of the gehinnom for sins we cannot seem to quit doing even though we wish we could, does no good - only damage.

Most average ba'lei machshovah (particularly the litvishe ones) tend to respond by clarifying that we should "hate the sin, not the sinner". But you go with Izhbitze and others who take it a step further and do not even condemn the sin itself! And you post about the idea that in retrospect,the sin is actually good and expresses Hashem's perfect Will. These things are deep cheshboinos and farbeit for me to put my two cents in where great tzaddikim debate. So I am not here to argue with the truth of your suggestions, at all! (...and that's kind of unusual! )

Fine. So perhaps you heard 'mussar' in the past, and interpreted that as a put-down. Naturally, it was the wrong approach for you. Perhaps you heard fire-and-brimstone-Judaism and saw how destructive it is to you. Then you b"H found a different approach and it is the answer for you, so you are kind enough to share it with us here. All fine.

But maybe the acceptance people are referring to here is not about evil, at all. As for me, I lived with my double life (that included a lot of sins) and it was horribly painful, demeaning, energy-sapping. The very last thing I needed was some happy religious guy to convince me that my 'sins' were a good thing, in retrospect. That it was all OK, sweet, and good.

What do you tell the wife of the holy, good, frum guy who is secretly having sex with himself (masturbating) to other women's images every other night? His epic 'valiant struggle with his yetzer hora' leaves her only the dregs of his spirit and heart.

So it's all 'good' in the 'Big Picture'...so what?! Does she deserve that? He is the one human love she has in this world, her liyum of v'dovak b'ishto...but he is truly and sincerely doveik to porn and his secret rendezvous to 'relieve' himself.

What do you say to the faithful wife who is home with their baby every day - while her sweet ben-Torah husband has a phone/chatting affair with a strange woman, desperately talking out his schmutz with her during his lunch hour? What is 'sweet' about Hashem's Will there for her? I am not bitter about it at all - just asking you, chaver.

Sweet Hashem's Will or not, she is being duped and living a fool's lie, and has been for years. He says they have 'Shalom Bayis issues'; they both read Rav Arush's sefer and 'work on their marriage...and it all fails. No one guesses that things cannot get any better on their 'farm' as long as he is 'milking another cow for free'! And that's true even if 'it's all 'good''.

And what if that night he is 'doing a mitzvah' with this wife in bed while he knows he will have sex with himself or with another woman tomorrow...what is sweet for her about that part of Hashem's Will? Nothing is.

And what is sweet for the children about Hashem's Will that their Daf-Yomi father is busy living his double life and preoccupied with his desires and his turmoil over the realization that he will not stop till he is dead...and has so little real energy and love left for his children? So little. They get the dregs for their whole lives, for father is busy with 'bigger things'.

So what is really being accomplished?

I am suggesting to you that seeing things in a way that makes an addict feel better may be a luxury that he can afford - but may be very cruel to the wife, the children, and sometimes even to Klal Yisroel (the chilul Hashem, R"l).

Go ahead and by all means "make your journey an EASIER and much more pleasant experience"!

But please remember that the only thing that is kind to the wife, the children, klal Yisroel - and to guys like you and me who cannot stay stopped until they get real help - is helping them admit the whole truth and get the help they really need so they can live clean.

Don't you agree?

Also, this thread has been hijacked for way too long. I believe it's time SonoftheKing starts his own thread, so we can attack him there .

I'm kidding, I'm kidding! I love you son

Attack him? I love sonoftheking and think he is cool! If he feels attacked, that's his issue. Chill your beard, Psalm-speaker buby.

But yes, this thread is in "Hi, Jack!" mode....who started it and what is it supposed to be about?

...can't recall.....

Dov wrote:


I think it might have to wait until after the three weeks

He didn't mean shave, he meant that I should put it in the freezer, that way the clay hardens and it doesn't fall off.

tehillimzugger wrote:


No wonder that Guitar seems to be stuck to his face!

Hmm...this explains a lot...

I always need to keep the G.U.I.T.A.R. in front of my face
GET
UP,
INTO
TRUCK.
AND
ROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

mr. emunah wrote:

While your at it, get that fox coat Devorah Schwartz has always wanted...
Best regards to Zanvil, Zanvi, whatever he calls himself these days.