Hello Friend and welcome!
Have you read the Welcome Package to Newcomers? You can see a bit here
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/PDFs/ebooks/Nutshell%20July2011.pdf
In my opinion, joining the 90 Day chart would be very helpful to you, as it was for me (after testing is done, like everyone says). But you can't join unless you stop any form of lustful activity, including sex with self, looking at porn etc
In the AA's Big Book there is an expression "half-measures availed us nothing". It is also quoted in the SA's White Book. And the reason is, as long as you keep feeding your lust, it will be taking you back to all the dark places you're trying to run away from.
Yes, it will hurt. But as we know (and you know I'm sure) the moment you sooth your pain with masturbation, you'll be right where you started.
That doesn't mean, of course, you shouldn't try and leave the masturbation as a last resort, but our experience shows it won't take you closer to recovery, just delay the process.
And as a frum Yid, you do know that it's an aveiro just like the zoinos. So what's the use?
And another point: Have2changeNOW wrote on 17 Jan 2012 22:40:

I'm sorry, what world view do other Yidden share with you? The zoinos? Can you approach anyone in your shul and discuss your zoino issues? If you get diagnosed with STD (Chalilo), will you run to your Rov to get an advice?
The only reason we can relate to you on this forum, is because we, too, are sick in the head, and worship human bodyparts and the god of orgasm. What's so Jewish about that?
Stop fooling yourself. The surest way out for people like us is to be in the company of other "real recovering perverts", as Dov puts it. And it matters not that you will have to refer to zoinos as prostitutes, it will have the same effect on you, trust me.
When I was nearing my first 90-day clean streak, I was going through a difficult wothdrawal, and a friend from GYE called me to cheer me up. He asked me something I want to share with you:
He asked: How many minutes/hours a day do you think of being Jewish? And how much time do you spend thinking about all the shmutz? So what is really a priority in your life? And if your answer is, like mine was, that time spent contemplating my Jewishness dwarfs when compared to all the thoughts of znus that go thru my head every minute of the day, then the next step is (kinda) obvious: Get off your high horse, and drag yourself into SA meetings on a regular basis. If after 5 or 6 meetings (per Dov) you still feel you can't connect, we'll have to declare your case unique, and see what else is available.
So please read the GYE In the Nutshel I referenced above, as well as handbooks and other things available here, but keep your mind open to the fact that all these could be "half-measures" that will avail you NOTHING until you connect with live people who share your problem.
Hatzlocho.
Giving you a virtual hug,
Mottel.

This works better in the original Yiddish, but I'll try....

Moishe is traveling, and he runs into a friend from his old hometown, Yankel. He gets himself invited for a meal. They sit down and the first course is served. Moishe digs in, but Yankel wants to catch up on all the news from his old friends. So he asks "How's our old buddy Shmerel doing?"

"Dead", says Moishe, and continues eating.

"What about Berel?"

"Dead"

"Shmuel?"

"Dead"

This kept going on. Whatever Yankel would ask, the only answer would be "Dead!"

Finally the meal was over, and Moishe leans back satisfied. Yanked could not contain himself. "All our friends are dead, and you just sit there fressing?"

"Don't worry, everyone is alive and doing fine"

"So what was that all about?"

"When I'm eating, the whole world is dead!"

I so hope that I can change without reaching the bottom - as GYE says. 

Hello All,

Shavua Tov!  Hope everyone had a great Shabbos, and if you are a football fan - hope you enjoyed the big Game. 

Hi H2CN,
like the Met's slogan after '86
Let's do it again!
wishing you much hatzlocha and happiness
zs

have2changeNOW wrote:


Kinda wonder where he thought "bottom" was.

cordnoy wrote:


getting busted

Alexeliezer believes in ecovery - but the tools of his that you are quoting here refer only to sobriety, not to recovery. Please hear me out for I am not putting anything down here:

Chaza"l argue whether learning Torah is greater than doing mitzvos. They end up saying kind of both: Learning is the ikkar, for it brings one to action (Mitzvos)....so the doing of mitzvos is clearly the goal of the learning - so it is sort of the main thing, but they call learning greater. Funny, but OK.

The Gr"a and others comment on the idea that ha'omer "ein li ella Torah," af Torah ein lo! Along this same vein.

Now, Torah is certainly da'as Elokim, so attaching ourselves to Hashem by knowing His Da'as is certainly the goal of everything - if Olam habo is neheneh m'biv haShchinah and that is from the Ohr in the Torah, then Torah is obviously the ikkar of it all, period.

But we are not dead yet. Mah yis'onen Odom chai? v'al ta'amin b'atzm'cha ad yom mos'cho...Bil'am thought he knew Da'as Elyon, too!

"Recovery" is a big word. We all try the best we can to recover and get healthier. But using my own mind to do that is exactly making the fox in charge of guarding the hen-house. One has to be foolish, self-centered, and in denial (that is, a typical addict like I am) to place his recovery in his own hands. If there is anyone who needs a double helping of humility, it is the addict in real recovery. Gevalt.

But "Sobriety" is not as big a word as recovery. We can be in charge of minding our sobriety. After all, who else can? Not G-d. He does a very poor job of it, since He gives bechirah to (nearly) all! No. Only we can guard our eyes, use the filter between the ears, and pray to Him for a daily miracle of protection (from potential trouble) and help (when we feel like getting into trouble anyhow). He is certainly Melech Ozer - uMoshiya.

Like the Chazon Ish (who did not hold of the Mussar derech of Reb Yisroel Salanter, at all) believed, the honest keeping of mitzvos - for the addict that means sobriety - automatically leads to having to become a good man who gets attached to Da'as Elyon - that is recovery to the addict. Since I cannot act out - it is not an option I can afford at all (like losing all the money I have R"l). So as I go through life, Life will force my character defects into the spotlight. I will rage at people, resent people, and will struggle with approval-seeking, lusting, machlokess, fear, and all my other crazinesses. They are part of how I work...and as long as they are in me, I will not be able to remain sober very easily. Remaining sober as I am becomes too uncomfortable - so the work of the 12 steps - or something like it - is forced upon me. Very Chazon Ish-y. This is not philosophy or "toiroh" - it is experience of many, many addicts (including myself).

So Mussar is nice. Filters are nice. The filter between the ears is indispensable...but who is in charge of it? Lets not be naive. We need connections with other people in recovery - connections that are real, not virtual. Please do not start to give the mussar and filters too much credence - for on the day that I start to believe that my mussar level is getting powerful enough - I will become doomed to eventually fall on my face and destroy my life with sexual acting out. For I will no longer be dependent on my G-d.

So. Similar to the Chaza"l regarding Torah and/or mitzvos...

The ikkar and tachlis is Recovery: Sanity and Serenity, ie. getting right with myself, right with my G-d, and right with people. But the only way to have any chance at all at 'making it', I (as an addict) need Sobriety - just plain Sobriety - no sex with myself (Masturbation) and no sex with anyone other than my wife. And feeding my lust will make that impossible, so self-honesty is all Iv'e got.

And self-honesty for a professional frum porner and masturbater is a tall order indeed! years of hiding and tricking and faking! So I only learn how to become honest with myself, by practicing being honest with other real people...ala Captain Kirk.

ataglance1234's absence haunts me, but not nearly as much as have2changeNOW's.