Hey H₂ it's great to see you back. Hatzlacha with the job hunting! (Is that anything like possum hunting? I'm sure our resident experts can share some tips ;D )

Keep On Hummering!!!

Gevura!

Hatzlocho in everything you listed, chaver.
An observation: you say "so far it's critical" and "not operational yet".
May I suggest it will probably stay this way forever?
KUTGW,
Mottel

Good to have you back bro!

Good to be back! and eager to live on a filtered PC. other big news is that I started to attend an SA meeting in my home town - more on that as I get comfortable there.

all the best and be matzliach!

H2CN

Hello Holy Chevra,

Fairly good news to report - the k9 filter is working for me. Interesting enough, I still hold the password myself, but the extra steps of having to type that in and go thru the filter, has slowed me down and make re-consider what I'm about to do. And then it seems that knowing I can't easily just type into porn, makes the whole idea just be much less urgent.

Of course - i will set up the Password thru my wife as the only holder, but I just got the whole new PC installed w k9 running on Friday. Back to the races! One day at a time!

Have a great week!

H2CN

Hey H2CN -

I read through a bunch of your original posts and noticed your struggles. Lately, not sure why, I've had this weird curiosity to visit a female masseuse for one of those massages. I know its wrong and B"h I have never brought myself to do it. I thought maybe you could give me some advice that would really deter me away from going down that path. Anything would be helpful.
Thanks,
Avraham

How about this advice:
Stay the heck away from those places. People have gone that way before only to find themselves in ruin. Best advice is stories of personal ruin, if you're smart enough to learn from them.
Pray for the women who are subjected to this sort of "work". You do realize they are not nearly having as much fun as you do when you use them for your purposes?
It also helps to "watch the movie till the end". If you're creating a lustful fantasy about a massage parlor, watch the fantasy till the end. Imagine the money transfer. Picture yourself zipping up after the fact and how awful you will feel. Picture looking into your wife's eyes when coming home. That will be real. You won't even remember the orgasm under the load of guilt and shame.
And btw, if you think I'm taking a moral high ground with you, and that you will have no shame after using a sex worker, this alone should alert you to the severity of your condition and should propell you into looking for recovery from obsessions of lust.
Good luck, Reb Avrohom. You can do better than get cheap thrills from a sex slave.
And I think that your airing this "curiosity" publicly is the first step in getting rid of it, so thank you for your honesty. It helps me remember where my head will take me if only I let it.
Mottel

Mottel,

You've summed it up perfectly. Been there once and its enough for me to think of the fallout whenever my screwed up mind tries to lead me back there.

Hatzlacha to all
Maalin

obormottel wrote on 21 Jun 2012 07:26:


How true - with all such imaginary pleasures.

איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד

MT

Machshovo wrote on 21 Jun 2012 16:08:

I love it how you always find an asmachto in Sifrei Koidesh to my blabber. Yasher koyach!

Hello Avraham,

If you can keep on Orbomottel's path go for it! for me - i can be strong for days and then sometimes take an instant drop all the way down. Ugh.

I think best way to stay away form massage parlors - is make a shvua (careful on this one) or strong commitment to yourself/Your chaver/Hashem to never go on the street that you know that one is there. Remember it is prostitution, don't kid yourself that its just a massage. And daven that Hashem keeps you away!!

DON'T GET STARTED - JUST DON'T GO!

Be Matzliach!

H2CN

Wow.
Mottel - thanks for the Shtark mussar and the slap across the face reality check. It feels good every once in a while. We usually try to leave out the very end of the fantasy.

H2CN - thanks for using your personal experience to help others. I definitely tried ligitimizing it that its not actual "prostitution". I think the thrill of having never experienced anything like that is just powerful.....yet a huge bracha.
Thanks again,
Avraham

Shtark Mussar is good, but like everything else - it wears off. In other words - keep it coming!

I am seeing two schools of thought - external prevention, i.e. a PC filter, or bringing a buddy on a business trip vs truly changing inside, i.e. "the filter in between my ears" to quote Alexeliezer.

For me - the external filter is NECESSARY, but then it does give me some breathing room to work on the internal changes.
its strange - and good for me - that when i have a filter in place, knowing I can't access the p*** seems to cool of the desire/impulsiveness.

According to Dov, and certainly others, for those truly addicted - the best way is to fully take on an SA program, go to the meetings, get a sponsor and WORK IT.

Good Shabbos to all

HAve2Change NOW

Yaffe omarta!
Gut shabbos!
M.

Have2changeNOW wrote on 22 Jun 2012 14:45:


Alexeliezer believes in recovery - but the tools of his that you are quoting here refer only to sobriety, not to recovery. Please hear me out for I am not putting anything down here:

Chaza"l argue whether learning Torah is greater than doing mitzvos. They end up saying kind of both: Learning is the ikkar, for it brings one to action (Mitzvos)....so the doing of mitzvos is clearly the goal of the learning - so it is sort of the main thing, but they call learning greater. Funny, but OK.

The Gr"a and others comment on the idea that ha'omer "ein li ella Torah," af Torah ein lo! Along this same vein.

Now, Torah is certainly da'as Elokim, so attaching ourselves to Hashem by knowing His Da'as is certainly the goal of everything - if Olam habo is neheneh m'biv haShchinah and that is from the Ohr in the Torah, then Torah is obviously the ikkar of it all, period.

But we are not dead yet. Mah yis'onen Odom chai? v'al ta'amin b'atzm'cha ad yom mos'cho...Bil'am thought he knew Da'as Elyon, too!

"Recovery" is a big word. We all try the best we can to recover and get healthier. But using my own mind to do that is exactly making the fox in charge of guarding the hen-house. One has to be foolish, self-centered, and in denial (that is, a typical addict like I am) to place his recovery in his own hands. If there is anyone who needs a double helping of humility, it is the addict in real recovery. Gevalt.

But "Sobriety" is not as big a word as recovery. We can be in charge of minding our sobriety. After all, who else can? Not G-d. He does a very poor job of it, since He gives bechirah to (nearly) all! No. Only we can guard our eyes, use the filter between the ears, and pray to Him for a daily miracle of protection (from potential trouble) and help (when we feel like getting into trouble anyhow). He is certainly Melech Ozer - uMoshiya.

Like the Chazon Ish (who did not hold of the Mussar derech of Reb Yisroel Salanter, at all) believed, the honest keeping of mitzvos - for the addict that means sobriety - automatically leads to having to become a good man who gets attached to Da'as Elyon - that is recovery to the addict. Since I cannot act out - it is not an option I can afford at all (like losing all the money I have R"l). So as I go through life, Life will force my character defects into the spotlight. I will rage at people, resent people, and will struggle with approval-seeking, lusting, machlokess, fear, and all my other crazinesses. They are part of how I work...and as long as they are in me, I will not be able to remain sober very easily. Remaining sober as I am becomes too uncomfortable - so the work of the 12 steps - or something like it - is forced upon me. Very Chazon Ish-y. This is not philosophy or "toiroh" - it is experience of many, many addicts (including myself).

So Mussar is nice. Filters are nice. The filter between the ears is indispensable...but who is in charge of it? Lets not be naive. We need connections with other people in recovery - connections that are real, not virtual. Please do not start to give the mussar and filters too much credence - for on the day that I start to believe that my mussar level is getting powerful enough - I will become doomed to eventually fall on my face and destroy my life with sexual acting out. For I will no longer be dependent on my G-d.

So. Similar to the Chaza"l regarding Torah and/or mitzvos...

The ikkar and tachlis is Recovery: Sanity and Serenity, ie. getting right with myself, right with my G-d, and right with people. But the only way to have any chance at all at 'making it', I (as an addict) need Sobriety - just plain Sobriety - no sex with myself (Masturbation) and no sex with anyone other than my wife. And feeding my lust will make that impossible, so self-honesty is all Iv'e got.

And self-honesty for a professional frum porner and masturbater is a tall order indeed! years of hiding and tricking and faking! So I only learn how to become honest with myself, by practicing being honest with other real people...ala Captain Kirk.