Sweet chaver! It's so great that you are opening up like this here! You must be so disappointed, it's a terrible feeling, I know.

But I must ask (for you, not me):

1- Have you opened up as completely as this in your SA meeting yet? If so, then what did your sponsor suggest or share? What feedback did you get from your fellow drunks there? And I will also say that for most people I know, one SA meeting a week is not enough. Why have a good night's sleep once a week if you know all the good it does you? You'd take it every night, if you could. So - can you do that? It may change things dramatically...though it may not. Only time will tell.

2- Did you go to SA meetings while you were in Eretz Yisroel? I went to a few great meetings in Yerushalayim a few years back, and there is a meeting in Beit Shemesh and a few other places nowadays. And they usually allow English sharing). If you did, then that's awesome - did you make new recovering friends? And if not, why expect your recovery to survive, at all? The "ruach" is twisted by us addicts and actually makes us fall worse. Till we go through the first 11 steps it almost always works that way! Cuz our religious observance and identity usually developed in tandem with our sex addiction - so of course it's poisoned and intertwined with it.

The answer is elsewhere... eventually Torah and tefilloh and avodah take on a new meaning and beauty, in recovery. But that takes time and siyata diShmaya, of course. It's actually a miracle, I think.

But all that 'interrogation' aside (and you know I love you and respect you a ton, sir!) - it is so, so precious that you admitted this here!

Ashrecha.

Now, something must have happened go do what I always do when I screw up: ask myself "Well, I am trying...but where am I going wrong?" Not "How evil am I?" but simply, "Where am I mistaken?" Usually it is simple.

A review of the past few months, weeks, days, or maybe hours with a trusted recovering pervert (I have lots of those to talk to, boruch Hashem!) will usually grant us the objectivity we need so desperately. Then we will let Hashem in, and things will get better.

Maybe you desperately needed this failure. Usually I grow the most from failure - but only when i am open about it and willing to hear.

Hatzlocha! In the zachus (cleanliness) of your openness, you will surely grow through this bump on the road!

Love,

Dov

Thanks!

I needed to hear that!

(I am referring to both of you, Have2changeNOW and Dov.)

Here with you bro.
I never believed in the 90 day thing, and have never counted. I made a commitment to be sober for the rest of my life, one day at a time. I'm sober over 3 years and I'm still one slip away from disaster. This isn't a habit. It's an addiction. My mind has been permanently altered by a life of incessant lusting.

There are some good things happening this far out. I'm not constantly having to shoo away machshavos. They come much less often. And I'm finally able to work on my relationship and proper relations with my wife.

Considering where you came from, you are doing absolutely great. You had a stunning 3-month start, and you will reclaim your kedusha. I believe in you 100%. Whatever you do, don't let it get you down. Be humbled, learn from it* and move on.

Have a wonderful Shabbos Kodesh with your family.
Good thing you haven't told the wife yet

Alex
__________________
*our only hope is not to slip

Well thanks to both Dov and Alexelizer. I really needed to hear both of those comments.

I actually had a big huge post that i was editing this afternoon (Friday), and I left the PC and it logged me out! Bummer.

Suffice it to say that I am not too upset about the fall - mainly i just want to get back up there again IYH!! somehow!

and that its great to be back on GYE.

Missed you guys

HAve2changeNOW - AGAIN!

Since joining GYE I have had 113 days, 178 days, 99 day streaks.

I am currently sexually sober since September 14.


Does this give you any hope?


Cumulatively, The GYE WOH counts 794 days for me. I never DREAMED that it is even possible!!!

TFLMS my ES&H.

Thanks YH - That is encouraging - but please tell me what you have done to get back up to sober after a fall?

You did not answer any of the questions I posed to you.

Maybe not on the forum, that may too upsetting, perhaps - or not...though it might help people here. But at least to answer them to yourself?

Yosef HaTzadik - I don't think (at least unless Dov says otherwise) that this programme teaches people to be sober for the rest of their lives. No addict would continue in recovery if that were the case. I believe the mantra is 24 hours at a time. That's it. the number of days sober is apparently meaningless and of little purpose to the recovering addict. It's rather to let others know it's possible.

that being said,...... H2C!!! WHAT THE!!!! DUDE, get back on the horse. If any one can get back up there you can.

I am in a similar pit to you right now so if any one can give you chizzuk it's me. lol okay maybe not. I started with the "kosher" RMT's... that was seemingly my way back to a minor slip... and minor slip and minor slip... I now have found that I actually have a very easily excitable situation, i.e. I think they call it premature e***, so if I go to a place that is slightly more than RMT something happens that is not kosher.

For some reason even though I say these places are "okay" and I just need to learn how to control my issue, the reality if I can stop lying to myself is that this is a bona fide sexual experience and it's slippage.

I guess I'm seeing now the real problem with S** addicts is that with all this talk about "hitting bottom", that's actually a trigger to go to zonahs again.... okay bad joke... joking is coping...

anyhow now I think I'm getting a shingles relapse... so H" is touching me with a 'negah".... dratz.

I haven't been going to meetings and I'm kind of ashamed to show my proverbial face anywhere, which is part of the problem... haven't called either of my sponsors due to the shame... drat.

My sponsor, reacting to my recent "slip'n'fall", said to me: if you keep making small deposits into YH's account by...(fill in your personal favorite), you don't think he's gonna present you with a huge withdrawal slip?
V'hameivin yovin.

OK, last pain-in-the-buttock post on this thread (at least about this topic)....(bli neder) :-X :

I asked you 2 questions about how this last giving up of soriety came about. You write about how to get back up onto the horse. But 'getting back up on the horse' can often be a nice-sounding way to say, "it's over, forget about it!". Ooh, there's a great way to ruin one's odds...

By basically ignoring the actual process of the mistakes we made and by not 'having' to face them, list them out clearly, and admit them to others who are not nogeya b'dovor (no pun intended, ontheegdeman!) cuz they are not us...we are doing everything we can do to guarantee we will flop again one day.

That is not surrender, but running harder from the fire. But running from a fire is counterproductive when you or I are the ones on fire! It's Stop - Drop - And Roll time. If all I need is chizzuk, I might as well just go into a mikvah, say ten magical tehillim, and jump up and down on a truck in Yerushalayim singing "Rebbi Nachman, Nachman mei'Uman..." to make all my problems 'just melt away'. Are we just here to make each other feel better? Please, please don't say "yes".....

Want chizzuk? Well, do you know why I am writing this even though somebody is bound to write back something like, "Dov you are an idiot, think you know everything, and why don't you go elsewhere to insult people?"? At least you who have talked with me, probably know that I truly, truly love you . That's why. And to work my 12th step and stay sober, be"H.

Well, our 4th and 5th steps (and the written and shared 1st step) are a routine - a set of tools. Not 'rites of passage'. This is important for me to remember.

Of course we all need to get back up onto the horse! Of course we need to keep on trucking. But we gotta see that G-d is in charge! If we fell, it was for a purpose. We must learn things from it by davka looking deeply at it. Otherwise how is He going to turn the z'donos into zachuyos? Teshuvah me'Ahavah is davka through learning from our aveiros - that is how the mistakes we make lead us to get better. He has a plan for you - I hope you don't run from it. Though addiction is not about the Yetzer Hora nor about Teshuvah - it works the same way.

Sorry if I overdid this.

Hatzlocha!


I am powerless over using and controlling lust. Totally powerless! I am unable to successfully lust like a gentleman, though most people (including Yiden, of course) can. It's not just an aveiro for me - it always eventually ruins my sanity and ly life.

dov wrote on 14 May 2012 16:51:

That means bli neder.

Hey, it's tough, man...

Have2changeNOW wrote on 10 May 2012 21:50:


Yes, this is a famous question. So let me explain in short.
Going 90 days without the "drug" is like slamming the door shut on our addiction.
It's still there and it will be there for life, but your brain has had enough time to regain its equilibrium of getting used to not needing these "chemical rushes" to maintain it's balance. That simply means that it becomes easier for you to remain clean. The door is like slammed closed on the old pathways.
HOWEVER, the moment you start OPENING THAT DOOR AGAIN to lust, it's still there - and it rushes back with a vengeance.
So it only helps us keep the door closed, but it doesn't get rid of the addiction.
Am I being clear?

By the way, Kudos on your 100 days clean. That's truly a miracle. Hashem will help you, just never give up!

Well - I have some found PC time, but its very late, by hooking up and old PC. IN a nutshell - I have fallen off a cliff this week and need to get back up IY"H. Will take the hishtadlus of using this old PC, but I'm having hard time configuring a filter, and that's already been bad!!

I owe you all my longer post and to answer Dov's questions, so bli neder I can get into those important answers after Shabbos and/or on Sunday. Right now - my m*st, p*rn and unfortunately z*nah count is all back to zero.
Oh well - I just want to go back a few weeks in the 100 clean day zone, but not sure how to get there. Hopefully back to posting will help ( but really need to filter this PC!!!) And yes I understand the Guard's input about 90 days, thanks for that input! but I think 20 years just so overpowers the 90 days. Best to just CLOSE THE DOOR AGAIN somehow!

Glad to be back - hopefully can keep access avail and clean!

Be matzliach and good ShAbbos

H2CN! AGAIN

Hey H2CN, you have no idea what an honor it is to have guard visit your thread, I'm just dropping by to say that I want to see you back in the hundred days too.
SLAM THAT DOOR!