I hope everyone is enjoying their Chanuka. I just signed up for the forum and am already very pleased with my decision. Looking forward to sharing and growing together. Hatzlacha rabba and kol tuv to one and all........

Welcome!  Have a seat and share your story.  What brings you here? We may have something in common :

I'm still a "Newbie" as they call it, so I'm still trying to gain my bearings before following through on your request, but IY"H I plan on starting two new posts- 1) Regarding a "victory" I had this past Erev Shabbos Chanuka 2) A call for help regarding problems with a Rebbe of mine from high school. Be on the lookout...... .........I could use your help.

I posted the two on the Break Free forum. Please don't hesitate to respond, comment, bash, etc.

Hang on a sec, I'll move over, you can sit like a mensch.  Nu, how'z it feel?  nice and safe?  Tough guys and not so tough tough guys, eh?

Welcome.  So what's up?  How'd you happen on GYE.

I wish you much success.

Ok, gentlemen. I feel like I'm ready. Zos Chanukah - What better time?.....
First off, it means a whole lot to learn that there are so many people here. We all feel the emes and chosamo shel HKB"H emes. Mi K'Amcha Yisrael!! You all make me very proud to be a Yid. So, yasher koach.

If you've read any of my previous posts, you'll know a little bit about me, but בע"ה I'll bring it all together. I advise that there may be sensitive material herein, although if you knew me personally, you would never think it in a million years. I promise.

I grew up as the youngest child in a well-known family around my community. We had a solid, frum family who stressed avodas Hashem and barely talked about materialism. I am the youngest by about 5 1/2 years, so I always felt alone, but I'll get into that a little later.

I went to a co-ed elementary school, and the stories of the beginning of my problems started then. I have stories of girls since first grade (I was the "class clown" and I remember sitting by a table with like three or so girls and I commented on how my eiver was "a different size then it had been before," which it was, but I had no idea what that meant- Let's just say they laughed and because I had made them laugh, I spent the rest of that period kicked out in the hall). I had a crush on one certain girl from about 2nd grade through eighth grade. It was NOT mutual by any means. She only acknowledged I existed during fifth grade. But I kept it secret from my family. I was very private and my parents were the strong type that accepted only perfection, so I dared do anything out of line for fear of punishment. In the latter years I met with the school psychologist, so things were already suspect (I don't know about what, but it just shows my "mental instability" shall we call it?.....)

Other than that one girl, I didn't have any feelings towards any other one person or girls in general. I do remember though, that when growing up I used to have my cars kissing each other, having one as me and one as that girl.

But truthfully, aside from that I escaped elementary school pretty sheltered and naive about girls and relationships in general. I just knew, though, that I wanted a connection.

I went to a strong yeshivishe high school (One of the few to go from that elementary school to that high school), but had trouble with friendships. I had this one 'best' friend, but it wasn't a healthy relationship as I was more his friend than he was mine. I started learning about myself, about who I was, but not too much. I admit that I had "intimate" times with this friend, but as naive and sheltered as I was, he was 10 times more. He thought a husband and wife go to the doctor to have a baby. I didn't know how it happened either, but I knew it had something to do with kissing and so that's how I 'played' with my friend. I would look at married couples with hope and comfort, as I too would be in their shoes one day and if there were fights, as there were often with my parents, I promised I wouldn't behave like they did to ensure a serene and loving home.

I don't remember exactly when (end of 11th, maybe 12th grade) when the computer frenzy started gaining steam, I would visit Jewish teen chat rooms, not to merely talk to girls, but solely  for the sake of marriage. Then, at about the same time, I suspected my father of looking at  inappropriate material on the computer, and after a few months I found out how to search the computer archives for images and my suspicions were correct. I got caught in the web. It started with nudity, and not much more. I was too scared and confused to look at anything else.

I always had trouble learning gemara, but wanted a "good shidduch", so I was a perfectionist in my every move. I went to a different yeshiva for a year and I loved it because, although I had trouble learning, I served as a moral compass for others and used my charm and naivety to get people to be happy, stop bad habits, come closer to Hashem, etc. I was the epitome of a "goody-goody" and too afraid to step out of line, but I still lived day in and day out with thoughts towards marriage. What didn't help one iota, was that my mother wanted a very respectable specific girl for a shidduch for me and a family member of this girl was one of my closest Rabbeim.

Throughout yeshiva, I struggled with focus and learning gemara, spending MANY long hours on mussar, shnayim mikra, halacha, and mishna. I came back to my hometown and in the middle of the year I was so down about not having any real friends (i.e- one could in today's day and age say I only had facebook type friends ), not being married, not having success in gemara learning or focus, but yet being loved by everybody, that I went back to using lust as an outlet. And as time wore on, I saw more and more and shocked my naivety into oblivion... I had charm and everyone (to this day!) calls me cute-my wife included! I felt like I could have had anyone I wanted, but I was too shy to talk to girls, but knew that with my good listening skills, compassionate attitude, happy go lucky nature, I could do anything. But knowing I could get caught (like everyone on the sick news today), I kept things private. Also, my whole life people have commented on how young I look and how cute I act, so I'm afraid to go out in public because when I do, I have girls 10 years younger than me locking eyes and they fix their hair, etc. etc. and with my suspect decision making, I would do anything for that closeness/relationship.

I would stay in the beis medrash until late at night fighting any urges, but knowing the house would be quiet when I got home, except for a "good night" from my parents, I would lose the battle before it began. All the mussar I learned, and all the mussar I LIVED, were evident during the time I would check my email and sports scores (another thing I kept quiet about because my Rabbeim all said it was a waste of time) but would melt away as the feelings of self pity began to trickle in.

I tried different shmiras but knew I could cover my tracks, so it didn't stop me. Every year at around this very time-i.e cold, dark winter days- my perfectionism would snap and I would say things I didn't and don't mean to those closest to me. But then I would get stronger... Sheva yipol tzaddik, v'kam! But now, after all these years, I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body. I'm emotional, need support, validation, etc. I don't trust my decisions because they've betrayed me time and time again. I don't think I'm an addict to what's offered on the computer and I would stop "acting out," as I see it's called here, but I need an outlet. I love music, but don't play any instruments. Following sports is an emotional roller coaster (especially if you follow the teams I grew up rooting for!  :o) and makes me more lonely and down because I don't talk about it with anyone. I feel like every second not learning is a wasted second, so I haven't really gotten into playing sports either. My main exercise is dancing at weddings where I let loose and dance like someone drunk on simcha! It's my way of showing Hashem that I cherish the sanctity of marriage.

I fear stopping because my relationship with Hashem is so close and I don't have a viable alternative option. I've gone through more chavrusahs then I'd like to count, so learning is hard (because there's only so much tehillim and shnayim mikra one can do, for Heaven's sake!  But recently, on a daily chizuk email I read Dov's hilarious words that he was such a tzaddik nistar, even Hashem didn't know about it! How true that seems!

So there's my story. I sum up our missions in one sentence: Our stories may be different, but our problems are all the same. I had a ha'ara I'd like to share: It says in Ashrei: Someich Hashem l'chol ha'noflim, That Hashem supports all those who fall. If you look in tehillim, the word noflim, the fallen ones is spelled chaser, missing a "vav". Thus it can be read: "L'kol hanifilim- The giants. We are all giants for trying to fight this epic battle, and it is us whom Hashem supports.

For me, the truth hurts. It really, really hurts. But to say I haven't been waiting for this day practically my entire life, I would be lying and as I started with, chosamo shel HKB"H emes, so that wouldn't be such a smart idea, now, would it!? Kavei el Hashem, Chazak Ve'ameitz lee'becha...V'Kavei el Hashem. Rabbosai, the floor is all yours. Please help me.........

i deeply identify with your story.
here's my advice:
read the handbooks
and then jump into 90 days
[that's what i did- and yeah it's a bumpy ride but it's worth every second]

I don't recall if I welcomed you yet NY, so WELCOME!

The thing that jumps out at me is the perfectionism.  It explains why you can't seem to keep a chavrusa.  If you are like me, you are very particular about how you want to learn and each chavrusa has something you don't like, so you'd rather learn alone - your way.  If I'm off on this - please disregard. 

It would also explain the trouble creating other relationships.  We as perfectionists want to be in control.  A relationship demands that we give up some of that control.  It also makes us feel vulnerable.  What if they don't like me?  That would prove that I'm not as perfect as I think I am.

I would say that making friends and "getting out of isolation" should be your #1 priority.  Being isolated from people is one of the surest paths to failure.  Sharing our faults openly with understanding friends helps us to accept ourselvs as imperfect as we may be.  This site was the beginning of that process for me.

Does any of this make sense to you?

I highly recommend Dr Sorotzkins audio and articles about perfectionism.  It was quite enlightening for me.  You can find them at www.drsorotzkin.com/ .

Keep posting and reading.  You are on your way my friend.

Welcome, NY and wow what a story. I can relate to so much of it, especially the loneliness, and the perfectionism to some extent as well.

One practical suggestion, if I may, relating to this:
I also love music and singing, and one of the (many) regrets from my childhood is that I never learned to play an instrument. But I am doing that now! I have a guitar, and I recently started learning how to play it. It's a great outlet and fills some of the time I used to spend on the computer  :-[ . Also, a couple of my kids are interested in music too, and they are getting piano lessons, so we "jam" together and it's a wonderful way to connect with them.

So, it's never too late to start! maybe you can do the same and you will find it to be helpful. One word of caution: It takes time and a lot of practice, so don't let the perfectionist in you get you discouraged if it's harder than it seems at first (I'm talking to myself too).

Chazak Ve'Ematz and Keep On Trucking!!

Gevura!

I also wish I played an instrument.  My parents asked me when I was a kid if I wanted to play anything.  I said yes, the drums. They never asked me again... i wonder why ;D.  A couple of my kids are taking piano lessons and I love to hear them play.

Thanks guys. I never heard of Dr. Sorotzkin or his work, so thanks for the resource. You hit the nail right on the head regarding how perfectionism can adversely affect relationships. But yet, part of being a perfectionist means dealing with issues like a perfectionist- That means, that not everything has to go your way and Hashem always knows what's good for you, so you take it as is, no? This has bothered me for a long time and I have worked on myself a great deal to how I react to what life throws my way......except, I feel, in this area of shmiras habris, einayim, machshavos ra'os, etc. etc. etc. Not to say I haven't worked on my attitudes towards growing and reactions to falls, but with being a results oriented guy, seeing the failures wears on you.

Did all these life experiences, tests and falls help me stay in Yeshiva and make Torah the ikur of my life? Yes, but it left a lot of devastation in it's wake. Not to mention our miscarriage after our first baby. I may be strong in most or all areas of avodas Hashem (to my abilities), but to have this as my imperfection! This is a dark and ominous stain on all my life's hard work. I KNOW that's not true, but I live with that notion day in and day out. My machshavos are always filled with thoughts of lust- especially to JEWISH females. I grew up in high school with a great mashgiach who ingrained in me an aversion to TV, movies, culture, so I only search the internet to find pictures of females, not per say anyone in particular.

About the music, gibbor120, seeing your persistence on this site, I think you would have been a great drummer and regarding what you and gevurah said about instruments (first, I got a fuzzy feeling when I read how you play with your kids. That's got to be SO nice! My oldest is only two and a half, but she does sing VERY MUCH on key. It's scary, but now you give me something to look forward to!), I was never a math person and for some reason I associate math with music, notes, chords etc. I'm allergic to math, and let me tell you, it's HIGHLY allergic to me :o Maybe it's just how my brain is wired or like one of you said, maybe it's the perfectionist in me that didn't give it enough time. Or maybe, it's the feeling of "wasting time" and not learning that has hindered me in the past. But it is a dream of mine....This just in to the WGYE Newsroom.....Math's allergy to NeiroYair has just been upgraded to EXTREMELY ALLERGIC....Code Red...Check in later as more details come in...

Have a great day, guys!

As a perfectionist, I need to learn to "let go".  "let" Hashem be in control and not feel that I need to micromanage my life.  There is someone in the driver's seat and it's not me.  When I try to grab the wheel, the car veers off the road, and all sorts of bad things start to happen.  I need to beleive that I am precious to Hashem no matter what - he loves me unconditionally.  I need to  be comfortable in my own skin. 

One major way of accomplishing this is to open up to real friends and tell them about my weaknesses.  Deep down I don't think people will like me if they know about my shortcomings.  It's not true though.  I try to portray a 'perfect' image, but I am so much happier when I can accept my 'imperfect' reality.  Seeing that others can accept my imperfect self helps a ton!

I may have heard this from Dr Sorotzkin beshem a gadol, that in order for a person to be a great Jew, he must first be happy to just be a regular Jew.

Hatzlacha Rabba!  Have a great Shabbos! (first be happy to have a good Shabbos )

Gibbor120, you got me in trouble...but in a good way. I've been having very long and early morning talks with my wife and while proudly showing off my moving marquee, thinking I was so funny in my previous post, she read your post and let's just say after all our talking, I now have a sign above my bed that reads "I try to portray a 'perfect' image, but I am so much happier when I can accept my 'imperfect' reality."

TehillimZugger, or whoever else reads this, what is your suggestion to the exclusion of? (You recommended the handbooks and 90 days) I'm still not so familiar with the site as I haven't had time to just sit and read through everything there is to offer. Thanks!

my report card
spelling 100
reading 100
writing 100
behavior a+
math 67

p.s. it's not so hard to read through the handbooks the gemara says chcham hayom shone perek machar shone perek and before you know it he's done

NeiroYair wrote on 01 Jan 2012 20:16:

I got published!

That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day! Thanks!