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Lust Disorders: Overactive or just Over-Sheltered?
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TOPIC: Lust Disorders: Overactive or just Over-Sheltered? 703 Views

Re: Lust Disorders: Overactive or just Over-Sheltered? 22 Nov 2010 16:05 #86155

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ToAdd wrote on 22 Nov 2010 08:49:


I think the answer is in the Adam and Eve story. One needs the tree of life (Torah) first before one can start on the tree of knowledge (experience), because if you do it the other way round, you will be overwhelmed.
Our children need sufficient knowledge or they will find out from someone or something else, and the easiest place to get 'adult' information these days in from people who really do not care about your well being.



i like that lesson from the Trees

this question has been discussed here on GYE in the past and many proposed the notion that the parents are better off telling the kids about the facts before they hear about it from other sources. that way they can get a picture of intimacy as being a positive, holy and special experience. if they hear about it from friends or read about it it can be perceived as a dark dirty secret that is really great fun but very naughty. if it is seen as a secret then it can foster a desire to hide any experiences they might have with it, as opposed to telling the parents and being open about it.

the downside to telling is that it opens their minds to the subject and sometimes without us telling them they would have not focused on it so much. it is also a rather tall order for parents to discuss this candidly. but no one ever said it is easy to be a good parent.

and don't forget that you can look forward to being a grandparent and watch your kids squirm as they have to deal with all the things we dealt with...
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
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Re: Lust Disorders: Overactive or just Over-Sheltered? 22 Nov 2010 19:45 #86202

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... and when the sheltered kids grow up, don't they STILL think it's disgusting even when they're in "the parsha" (of shidduchim) and have to be convinced that even their OWN REBBEs did such a thing and probably still do and that there's a torah obligation to do so etc etc?

Or... by the time the hormones have caught up with them (years before), they figured out that it's not such a bad idea.

Hmmmnnnn.  Thoughts, chevra?
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Re: Lust Disorders: Overactive or just Over-Sheltered? 22 Nov 2010 20:08 #86208

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But I think that's only if they are sheltered from it.  Those that are exposed to it day in and day out will perhaps think its ok and later on think its normal.


I don't know about that. I assume that most teens do not see it as something disgusting regardless of their upbringing. I can imagine that sheltered teens are probably confused because they want it in one hand and they think of it as something dirty. They learn about it gemora but they can't imagine their parents/rabbis doing it. Less sheltered teens know the score.


this question has been discussed here on GYE in the past and many proposed the notion that the parents are better off telling the kids about the facts before they hear about it from other sources. that way they can get a picture of intimacy as being a positive, holy and special experience.


My father tried it and it was extremely awkward. I don't see the point in doing that but to each his own. You probably won't be be reveling anything that s/he doesn't know already... 
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Re: Lust Disorders: Overactive or just Over-Sheltered? 25 Nov 2010 12:43 #86730

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installed wrote on 22 Nov 2010 20:08:
They learn about it gemora but they can't imagine their parents/rabbis doing it. Less sheltered teens know the score.
Yeah, that's exactly what I would think. Even though the most sheltered of teens still might go to supermarkets where magazines line the checkouts.

Am I missing something, guys?
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Re: Lust Disorders: Overactive or just Over-Sheltered? 25 Nov 2010 15:45 #86750

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guardureyes wrote on 20 Nov 2010 22:09:

Look, if you grew up in mud and live in mud, you won't notice a stain on your filthy shirt. But if you are clean and wear white clothes... you'll notice any stain.

Once you get splashed with a little mud on a white shirt, you say, "what the heck, the shirt's already dirty, I may as well roll in the mud!!".... That's why some frum guys spiral down so fast....

Also, as they say in SA, it's a progressive disease, and as we distance ourselves from it, the disease continues to progress and we get ever more sensitive.... As Dov has written many times, he is much more sensitive today than he was when he first got sober 13 years ago. The good news is that he doesn't "test" his sensitivity any more. He has internalized that it's poison for him.

There seems indeed to be some connection between "distancing ourselves" and "sensitivity". But it makes perfect sense.

So "yes", the more sheltered are perhaps more "at risk". But that's like saying, "the spotlessly clean people are more at risk for getting dirty". Obviously.  :o

Guard

The question was “Are children who grow up in a sheltered frum environment More likely to have P & M problems. Are you really suggesting that a child who is raised in a home without a TV, who doesn’t watch movies, or have access to trashy magazines is "More likely" to have a problem?

I grant you that he (or she) may have a problem, certainly the children with raging out of control hormones (Except I don’t think those children will do any better with allowed exposure to this either).

I grant you sheltering your children doesn’t guarantee you any amount of success in raising them pure.

But “More likely”?  That’s ludicrous!

I guess you agree with the people who say that they expose their children to everything so that they can make “informed choices”
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