Chevra: I'm hoping you can share some personal perspectives.

Question: do guys with a very frum and sheltered upbringing grow up with more trouble (p&m and other GYE challenges), compared to folks who grew up less sheltered?

My wife & I are both long-time baalei t'shuva, but our "old" days had many movies, women's albums, magazines, and . So we feel sorta de-sensitized to some of the shmutz around us.

For many guys here, though, even a glance at a secular newsaper can set off a downward spiral. Is that because such pictures are such a shock to SO frum a person who never saw such shmutz before? Are guys from more "modern" families (or BT) able to weather the storm a little better since they've seen some of it before? Or is it simply a genetic pre-disposition toward se*ual compulsion/addiction?

So, please help: are the more-sheltered at more-risk?

good question

you have to ask the professionals

without bias

i think just because one grew up "less" sheltered does not mean he is less affected

this is an old question

have fun with it!

b

No.

Yes

Look, if you grew up in mud and live in mud, you won't notice a stain on your filthy shirt. But if you are clean and wear white clothes... you'll notice any stain.

Once you get splashed with a little mud on a white shirt, you say, "what the heck, the shirt's already dirty, I may as well roll in the mud!!".... That's why some frum guys spiral down so fast....

Also, as they say in SA, it's a progressive disease, and as we distance ourselves from it, the disease continues to progress and we get ever more sensitive.... As Dov has written many times, he is much more sensitive today than he was when he first got sober 13 years ago. The good news is that he doesn't "test" his sensitivity any more. He has internalized that it's poison for him.

There seems indeed to be some connection between "distancing ourselves" and "sensitivity". But it makes perfect sense.

So "yes", the more sheltered are perhaps more "at risk". But that's like saying, "the spotlessly clean people are more at risk for getting dirty". Obviously.  :o

I'm jealous of the guy who gets launched into lust world from the touch of a woman's fingernail. Why? Because he is sensitive. We should all strive to be as sensitive as possible in these matters. It enhances our perception of things and makes us closer to HKBH. It probably also leads to better marriages, etc.

it all depends in my opinion.
if a parent raises a child teaching him only to run away from these thing, the child gets curious. but if you raise a child teaching him that not only is everything out there bad but you also teach him that there is a special sanctity to the way we act and etc (you know what i saying?) then i dont think its that much of a problem

I think you will find people from all kinds of backgrounds on this site.  Personally, I grew up modern o, with access to all the shmutz, but I am still very sensitive to everything today.

just to add my 2 pence

i grew up modern and i found that as i got frumer, i got more sensitive to it. It was 100% inversely proportional that when i stopped having friends who were girls my lust freefall went up a few gears.

so even though i grew up with it around, the less i expose myself to it in a 'mutar' way, the more sensitive and allergic i get.

I grew up in a few worlds

Each one has malos and chasronos

The yh has acces to all neighborhoods and types

This is a question I've asked myself before, but now that I havea child, I ask it as a parent.

A year ago, I thought it best to raise children in a way that's totally exposed to everything. How can one deal with the real world if you're not exposed to it?

Now that I can see how bad it is to fall into the trap of lust, I want to protect my child[ren] from it as much as possible. But this is the other extreme where suddenly when they're all grown up and emerge from thier cacoon, they get bombarded with something that overwhelms them.

I was once visiting a rabbi for Shabbos and his 11 year old daughter asked me all sorts of 'adult' questions.

I think the answer is in the Adam and Eve story. One needs the tree of life (Torah) first before one can start on the tree of knowledge (experience), because if you do it the other way round, you will be overwhelmed.
Our children need sufficient knowledge or they will find out from someone or something else, and the easiest place to get 'adult' information these days in from people who really do not care about your well being.

I must agree with Guard, the less exposure you have to it, the more sensitive you are.
I have less than half a year of total clean days since finding GYE and I can see that I am more sensitive than I was six months ago.
So, my answer to your question is yes, but my solution is to be better educated and thus prepared.

Sorry if I'm just thinking out loud here, that is a bit of a tangent.

ToAdd

;D $1,000,000 question.
I think that teens will m regardless of their upbringing. P already depends on upbringing, openness, and personality. Each child is obviously different. I can say for myself that I come from an open home and struggle with P while my brother kept away from it. My bro is more of an extrovert than I am and perhaps didn't feel the need for it. In other words, I would have probably been better off in a more sheltered home while he was okay (and possibly stronger) in an "open" home. It's also interesting that we both remained frum in university while many of our frumer friends dropped it.

My boys (ages 9-11) are very sheltered from shmutz, B'H.  I notice that the occasional time they do see some pritzus, they are disgusted by it, as if they are brought up that this is a bad and disgusting thing.  I always wonder if they will be very sensitive to it later on.  Who knows? It all depends on Siate Deshmaya in my opinion.

I think that most kids think of it as interesting/embarrassing/disgusting until they get a biological urge for it. You can't really tell at that age...

But I think that's only if they are sheltered from it.  Those that are exposed to it day in and day out will perhaps think its ok and later on think its normal.