Day 14 b'h

In the last few months I was clear for 13 days a few times, but this is the first time in a while that I 'made it' to 14 days. Thanks to the tzibbur for your support and giving me a place to bring my struggle into the light.

R' simchastorah! Keep it up! Also, I think I speak for everyone when I say thank you for your insightful posts, which shed light on our struggle. Your מחשבה-style pieces give us food for thought, and add so much to the incredible wealth of "GYE תורת"; with your personal שמחת תורה shining through!

Much hatzlocha,
iwantlife

simchastorah wrote on 17 Nov 2024 07:06:

ולכל הי״ד החזקה….לעיני כל ישראל! 

We are here for you, rooting for you, and admiring your insight, self-aware genuine growth, and עמקות בסוגיות הרוח והחיים 

Chaim

Day 15 b'h

Last night I had one of the most painful conversations I've had in a long time. It was in the GYE chat. It started with me bringing up a difference between feeling good 'about' one's self, and feeling good 'in' one's self. (I aim for the latter.) It moved on to a more general discussion about whether Hashem's ratzon for us in this world includes us having pleasure 'stam'.

The conversation went something like this:

Me: Our tachlis in this world is to bring up the חיצוניות to the level of פנימיות. Certainly Hashem wants us to have pleasure, that's the תכלית הבריאה. But this world is not just pure חסד. If it were it would be עולם הבא. In this world there is דין too, and that means that we need to enjoy within parameters.
Him: Bro I feel so bad for you. You're so intense. Who's been feeding you this litvish poison?
Me: This is not 'litvish'. This is in sfarim from before there were chassidim in litvaks, and in chaddishe sfarim too.
Him: There you go with the sfarim again. I feel bad for you that you don't have any pleasure in this world.


This is very much a paraphrase and not quotes. It was a very long conversation. I felt so utterly misunderstood. Like no matter what I said I was just being "intense" or "litvish", like my desire to try and imbibe the חכמה in our ספה"ק is somehow coming from being this miserable "litvish" character, and it's just so pitiable and nebach.

A part of me wants to put this person down. I am sure that I would have some temporary satisfaction from that. He did in fact put me down. But in the long run I would get nothing out of it and would be hurting another Jew. The fact that I am writing this at all is probably not the most geshmak thing for this other person, but I will not reveal to anyone who it was. I also want to take this as an opportunity to be בכלל הנעלבים ואינם עולבים שומעים חרפתם ואין משיבים. Naturally this post itself somewhat ruins that, but still at least by not striking out cruelly and rather accepting the בזיונות I can help to chip away at my ego and make more room for Hashem.
​

The more important thing is for me to recognize that the fact that I found this conversation so hurtful is really about me. Why is it so hard for me to feel misunderstood by someone else? Especially someone that I have no idea who they are? Even if it is indeed regarding the part of my life that I hold most dear (save my kids I guess maybe), still what do I care if someone else totally doesn't get me?

Of course the answer is because deep down I am insecure. I am afraid that I am broken. I am waiting for the world to give me that approval that deep down inside I so desperately need. And when someone basically rejects me (though they'll certainly said, "bro I'm not rejecting you") I say "wait wait! if you understood me better you wouldn't reject me! i'm not so different from you as you think! it's so unfair that I'm not getting your approval just because of a misunderstanding!"

Anyway this is part of my thoughts about it. Hashem should help me not to turn to the fake love that exists in fantasy and p* as a way of replenishing my inner good feeling

Wow. This is the first time I'm thinking I wish could learn b'chavrusa with someone from here. You must gishmak to learn with.

Could it be that it's not insecurity and it's that you have such a strong desire for emmes that you have trouble accepting that not everyone wants to be open and really think about what the other person has to say/write?

kavey wrote on 18 Nov 2024 10:44:

I wish it was that, that would be way cooler. But unfortunately I think that it's just plain old insecurity. I'm not a full בן חורין as I'd like to be. But I am heading in the right direction and with Hashem's help I may get there someday. In the meantime I can do my best even with sometimes not feeling great. Bh I just came back from a productive seder so למעשה it's all good.

When someone's internal script says, "You are a loser", one has an extremely difficult time hearing criticism - even completely mistaken criticism (as the ridiculous conversation you described). Every disagreement is perceived as an attack or as a rejection - a fulfillment of that script. If i have not pleased the next fellow, there must be something wrong with me. I need him to agree. Those of us that began our journeys with that most unhealthy mindset (myself included - big time), had to come to the realization that part of our process in cleaning up our inyanei kedusha, was to start rewriting that script. The new one has to be something like, "I may not be perfect, but i am a good guy". My chaver's differing opinion is not a threat to me - it does not shake up my inside core. B'ezras Hashem the guys here can attest to the fact that as one fixes the midas ha'yesod, the entire "building" solidifies - the machshava, the nefesh, the hergeshim, etc. and one becomes emotionally healthier as he becomes kadosh v'tahor.

kavey wrote on 18 Nov 2024 10:44:

And why not? 
For real...

Hashem Help Me wrote on 18 Nov 2024 12:32:

This ought to be chazered a few times. 

I just want to add: 
The reason that particular conversation may have been so painful and triggering (and i personally can relate, though I’m not sure everyone can), is because he rejected and criticized you for aspects of who you are that give you a sense of value and self respect. Saying that understanding what it says in Seforim (something you pride yourself on, rightfully so), makes you “so intense” (a denigrating way to talk about the fact that you do, in fact, take in and internalize what you learn seriously and try to live by it), and that your thought-out ideas in Avoda are “Litvish poison” (I’m gonna guess you’re a broad minded Yeshivaman, like me), attacks you with dismissive denigration in your core sense of values.  If you’re shaky, that’s triggering. 

Im not going to address the actual “concept” of dismissing actual concepts and Torah as “Litvish” because they aren’t “feel-good”, though I have a lot to say about it. 

The main thing is that you, Chaver, deserve to build up your core sense of value to be able to be self-reliant. Not with arrogance, but with healthy self-confidence. And the good news is that you’re currently engaged in the best course that exists to build that up.

Because as you learn to deal with your pain without resorting to lesser coping mechanisms that you no longer need or desire, you’ll know, in your core, that your center consists of Aish Shechora and Aish Levana, you will be stainless steel wrapped in plush velvet. 

Hold your head high, 
Youre Simchas Torah, and you know a hell of a lot about life. 

Here’s a warm hand, 
Chaim Oigen

chaimoigen wrote on 18 Nov 2024 15:55:

As usual, Reb Chaim Oigen has hit the nail right on the head.

It is very much true that the reason why this conversation in particular was so painful is because of the importance that this part of my life holds for me. While I do also get thrown off kilter by disagreements of other sorts, I can hardly think of anything which as much would get to me as this, and exactly for that reason.

Thank you for the advice and kind words

I don't remember from whom this quote is but it definitely is from one of the Talmudei Bal Shem Tov, and it happens to be one of the most famous quotes:

"What a dark and despicable world this is, for he who lives {שקוע} in it, What a precious & beutiful world this is for he who is in it" {I don't remember the exact wording but this is the point}, from what I understand it looks like this is exactly the point you are saying, you should be proud within yourself, but definatly not about {read: שקוע in this world} yourself, so whoever this great person was, got it totally wrong, there's no chasidishe sefer that recomends living and enjoying this world to the fullest.

Maybe to try to validate our fellow jew, he's referring to something close that happens to be very helpful to most people, if interpreted correctly; "I really should be upset with myself and not enjoy anything in this world, so I at least know that I'll be getting my Oilam Haba, but then I'll be oiver on the aveira of Mara Shechoira, & Atzvus, which will guarantee me a one way ticket into Gehinom". Now that's a great chizuk not to let yourself down, but again it just proves your point again, to be happy within yourself, not about youself enjoying this world to it's fullest.

Not judging anyone, just trying to soothe your pain a bit.

KOMT!!! With love Akiva

I heard a beautiful vort from Rabbi Tuvia Singer yesterday, one that he has repeated multiple times (by the way, he's great to listen to in the car. Your ahavas Hashem will multiply)

 We say in Haftorah of Taanis יַֽעֲזֹ֚ב רָשָׁע֙ דַּרְכּ֔וֹ וְאִ֥ישׁ אָ֖וֶן מַחְשְׁבֹתָ֑יו וְיָשֹׁ֚ב אֶל־יְהֹוָה֙ וִירַֽחֲמֵ֔הוּ וְאֶל־אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ כִּֽי־יַרְבֶּ֥ה לִסְלֽוֹחַ:
Usually we are half asleep but the Navi is telling us that HKBH is ירבה לסלוח. He continues that HKBH is so great, He made the heavens and earth, the mountains the rain and snow. 

So Rabbi Singer said, the reason we think Hashem won't forgive ourselves is because we would not forgive others or ourselves knowing what we have done. 
However HKBH is different. He is ירבה לסלוח. He doesn't hold grudges and low self esteem. HKBH by nature is extremely forgiving even for the worst sins. If we can believe that HKBH forgives us no matter what, we can learn to forgive ourselves. 

Reb Shmishon Pincus writes that the Navi in begining of Malachi is giving the last Nevuah to klal yisroel. This is the last time HKBH will be communicating directly with the Jewish people. The last message he has for the Jews. What does he say. אהבתי אתכם אמר ה'. 
That's it. 
I love you. 

That's what HKBH leaves off the yidden with. 

Rabbosai, Hashem loves us with such tremendous love. 

We have to use the knowledge of that, to forgive ourselves and our foolish mistakes. 

Hashem loves you! 

odyossefchai wrote on 18 Nov 2024 16:45:

Rabbi Singer is a force to be reckoned with

I want to update the oilam that the person with whom I had the conversation saw this thread and got back to me. And in a testament to his well-meaningness he apologized very nicely. 

He could have girded himself in spite, jeered at me for taking it so hard. Instead he said to me, "wow, I see now that this is something I need to work on." We all make mistakes, sometimes my mistakes hurt you, sometimes yours hurt me, and sometimes the damage that we cause is invisible. The important thing is what we do after the mistake, and this person is on the ball with what's important. 

Hashem should help me to learn from him, and to be so ready to move forward when I make mistakes, even when the way that I find out about it is שיודיעוהו אחרים and not הודע אליו.

simchastorah wrote on 18 Nov 2024 19:48:

Impressive.