1) Did you read the page I linked above?

2) Every single pretty woman in the world has a unique look, like different flavored ice-creams. If a person doesn't learn to let go of lust, then no matter how perfect or pretty his wife is, and even if he would have 20 beautiful women, he will still be pulled to look at the "other ones" in the street and just keep fantasizing and lusting and needing more and better. The more you feed it, the more you need it. There is no way out of this. Not even if he would have it all - he would just want MORE... "As Chazal say, no man ever died with half his desires fulfilled". No man? EVER?? think about that. That means even the one who spent his entire life running after women, hundreds of affairs, etc... He won't EVER get even half of what he wants...

It is only when we are ready to let go of it and give it up to Hashem, that we start to find peace and inner serenity...

Well, the answer was pretty much spelled out above, the only way a person's wife can possibly be the problem, is if she becomes repulsive to him (in a way that would make any woman repulsive to anyone).
However, there is no such concept of "if she was prettyER I wouldn't have to stuggle. Once she is normal and somewhat put-together, and her husband was at one point attracted to her, all problems from here on in are strictly his issues, which not surprisingly he will first try to blame on everything possible, before making a conclusion that will make him have to work on himself.

Thank you. What you are saying makes alot of sense. But what about what I said about when the lights are out? You have not addressed that point.

I'm not sure I understood what you were saying.
I think you meant to say that weight and looks are not the same, because weight can be noticed when looks can't. Correct?

I meant that when the bedroom lights have gone out and its dark, so now its not a question of prettyness and looks, just what you feel with your hands etc.

ark321 wrote on 25 Dec 2009 08:39:


Lust is lust, and if we want it, we'll never have enough. And if we let go of it, whatever we have will be enjoyed as a gift...

Heck man, after it's over, it's over. It's the same 10 second pleasure whatever you "feel" before it happens.

And if you think about it, we don't even get pleasure from the other person, we get it from ourselves. It's all in our minds anyway.

ark321 wrote on 25 Dec 2009 08:39:
According to what your saying, your problem is almost definitely along the lines of a shalom bayis problem. A shalom bayis problem does NOT necessarily mean that there is fighting, or shouting, or even slight hostile feelings. A shalom bayis problem means, that the couple is not living up to their potential relationship. Why is that a problem? Well if you had money in an account, and you only had access to 5% of it, that's called a problem. And what you are capable of accomplishing through shalom bayis, is amazing. So it follows that if you are using only 5% of your abilities in shalom bayis, and you don't see amazing things happening - that's a big problemo.
The type of love that should ideally exist between a man and his wife does not allow for the thoughts you are having. Plain and simple. I don't know of any better way to put it. Yes I am demanding a very high standard, but it's YOUR account don't you think YOU should have access to 100% of it?
There are numerous books out on shalom bayis, almost all will help dramatically if taken seriously. (Some will be a complete waste of your time). I have found that the new one going around by R' Arush is VERY VERY good. No long chapters that make you space out 30x a page, no complicated points that take years to bring out, just very good and straightforward helpful, useful, practical, and sensible information.
Try it. You never know. It might change your life even more than this site changed ours.

So indeed, when choosing a wife, I have to a) determine she can be attractive to someone (not weird, socially akward, bad hygiene, grossly overweight....)  then I can do b) see if I myself find her pleasing.

It happens to be that I'm a very skinny guy. Like I have a hard time gaining weight. (I'm 5'7 130 lbs). It also happens to be that I try to be healthy, and someone who is overweight I have a hard time being attracted to.. :-/  Although I did almost get engaged to a girl that was a lil overweight (like she could stand to lose 20 lbs), but I felt she had potential... (which I guess is kinda mistake... you don't marry potential... or a fixer upper...)

Kedusha wrote on 25 Dec 2009 03:41:
Sadly to say i totally agree with you Kedusha. Tried and proven. If a man looks/lusts for other women, his wife can be the most beautiful thing in the world...............HE WILL NOT FEEL ATTRACTED TO HER!!!!!

And i do think looks are important in shidduchim but it shouldnt be the make-it-or-break-it. But if a person doesnt have any attraction, no matter how smart she is, no matter how many other qualities she has, you have to stay away.

Less of a problem? I don't know... Less is a very relative term. But I can assure you beyond any shred of doubt that men with extremely attractive and skinny wives still struggle with this. Not only that, but they have an additional problem of thinking that they are absolutely crazy when they would sometimes even rather spend a few hours with p%*n than being intimate with their wives. You have to understand that this problem we have is an addiction and it is not rational. The drug addict would rather spend the day alone in his room snorting coke when he could be going to an amusement park with his friends. The alcoholic would rather get lost in an alcoholic stupor than enjoy his brother's wedding. Addiction is not based on what the alternatives could be, it is based on the dysfunction of the addiction. So no one should think, if only my wife was prettier or skinnier I wouldn't have this problem... The only way one doesn't have this problem is if he works on it and fixes himself, not his spouse.

habaletaher wrote on 25 Dec 2009 11:33:
Ditto Haba. Couldnt of said it better.

guardureyes wrote on 25 Dec 2009 08:43:


Dear Reb Guard,

Here, I respectfully disagree. If a person is properly in tune to what intimacy should be like, they should be able to get immense pleasure from their spouse, but not by what he gets from her (in that area I agree with you, it has nothing to do with the other person), but by what he is able to give to her. There is an enormous pleasure in being able to give in the most intimate way to someone we love, and that is a pleasure that comes from the other person, but only through our giving... but that too is in the mind....

I think "slim" is a better word than "skinny." 

Is anyone really attracted to a woman who is skin and bones?

Equating "skinny" with "attractive" probably causes some girls/women to develop eating disorders.

I think Guard was saying that if your into it only for the lust then it's only worth the 10 seconds.
Only if you have your head on straight and understand how intimacy fits in with yiddishkeit (and practice it) - can the enjoyment be real and meaningful.
[In response to your argument that intimacy is meant to be enjoyed (albeit in the proper manner), I must mention that although this is the general shitah, there is much discussion on the topic, and there is considerable weight in the other direction, that ANY enjoyment in this area is in fact [b]an indulgence[/b], and anyone serious about his avodas H-shem will steer clear of any of it.]

first of all,even though this is not something i ever say,i just gotta share that some of the things i have read here are potentially triggering for some.
having said that....

Baruch hashem,i never had so much trouble finding the prettier girls.
But even while with them,my lust was never satisfied.
I needed more and more.
And I'm gonna have to agree with ark321 that its about the relationship,not about her looks.
My most enjoyable experinces where i actually felt fulfilled where with a less pretty girl but who was really enjoyable to be with.
I am not married so i dont know how much anything i say counts in this thread.
but the way i see it,marriage is about love,and love never satisfies lust.