Shteeble wrote on 25 Jan 2021 07:17:

I tend to agree with your flipside. However, I see the merit in what others are saying and trying to reconcile both ideas in my head. I also have seen some success with both ways throughout my years so not sure...

Grant400 wrote on 19 Jan 2021 16:51:

Oish, looks like we hijacked your thread by mistake. Sorry. 

Your starting post on this thread, the one quoted above, is super important to focus on.

Thank you.

R' Lou, maybe you can import the pleasure seeking posts to a new thread? It should probably be on a thread with it's own name anyhow...

Hakolhevel wrote on 20 Jan 2021 15:02:

It's still important to have normal type motivational reasons for why you want to work on overcoming lust.

Let's face it, whether you are in a 12 step program or not...

Overcoming lust requires a lot of time and work...

If we don't spend time on recovery, we are unlikely to succeed.

So it's important to have a big WHY.

It's important to remind ourselves.

It's important to stay motivated to fight.

I have a much different perspective than many of you. If you have a desire for lust it means you are a normal healthy man. Yes, as Jews who strive to keep Torah and mitzvot we need to know how to control our desires and not do things that are assur. Yet you shouldn't feel guilty about these desires any more than you should feel guilty about feeling hungry on yom kippur. 
Its great that we all want to work on ourselves, but lets also try to be normal

simpleJew66 wrote on 25 Jan 2021 08:00:

Who said anything about guilt?

It's all about "how to control our desires and not do things that are assur (or bad for us in one form or another)."

Listen, if it's working for you, great! If not, take some advice from the veterans, they know what their talking about.

Also, I think there is a difference between knowing that you are normal even though you lust and thinking that lusting is normal. I think the former is a healthy mindset, the latter an unhealthy one. Being attracted to women is not lust. It's healthy to be attracted to women, it's not healthy to lust after them.

Shteeble wrote on 25 Jan 2021 07:26:

Hijack away my friends! This thread went nowhere...it's all yours Lou!

I never meant to hijack anything and actually did not even realize that it looked like that until I saw Shteeble's comment. I guess I thought I was elaborating more on the lust issues mentioned.
My apologies.

Lou wrote on 25 Jan 2021 22:09:

Puuuuuullleeeeezzzeeee! What are you apologizing about?!? Is this the military? A millennial feel good group? Your wife? Someone you walk within 3 feet of in the supermarket? 

Discussion is always welcome everywhere. 

Lou wrote on 25 Jan 2021 06:02:

To take this a step further... If I replace the wolfing down the burger with doing a Kosher lust related activity(This is not the Balebatims forum...) would that change the narrative?
I think it may change it.So is the other physical pleasure any better or different? Or perhaps no, disregarding any relationship issues and purely from desire/lust outlook would it really be the same thing and it would be ok?

Grant400 wrote on 25 Jan 2021 22:40:

To quote cords on the oddly named Milchigs thread
"cordnoy" post=333357 date=1531481841 catid=5
Just a reminder:

1. We try to remove triggerin' stuff.
2. Please, as best as possible, do not disclose personal stuff. 
3. Those with ssa tendencies should be extra careful.
4. It is always best to offer advice by sayin' what worked or didn't work for you.
5. Remember that this is a public forum (sort of like a bar). Posts can be wacky (would you heed the advice of every drunk cradlin' his scotch?).
6. There is no ownership of a thread.
7. Treat others with respect. Try not to get personal.
8. Moderators are human as well; some even sub-human.
9. Try welcomin' newcomers.
10. L'chayim!

Lou wrote on 26 Jan 2021 03:05:

As mentioned, a clear response to this should be on the BB forum. To answer simply: Practically speaking, a "kosher lust related activity" is definitely better and in some circumstances advised by Chazal. However, that is primarily good advice for one who is healthy in this area and on occasion is triggered. Guys like us with loads of baggage who are trying to rewire our brains should use every "kosher opportunity" to retrain ourselves as much as possible. So for us we should avoid if at all possible "kosher lust related activities". 

Hashem Help Me wrote on 26 Jan 2021 12:20:

I get that,and that is why I am thinking that if the root of lust is pleasure seeking than possibly it is just the same if you seek a different pleasure.
I also have my own ideas regarding that whole premise that you mentioned  about but I am still forming that...
Thank you

Onset of Urges:

1) I am in a state of emotional pain, and need anything to lift me out of it.
The "false pleasure" and pain relief is pursuing the lust.

After Indulging: 

2) Regret.
That I fell spiritually, and that I wasted time on an illusion.


Takeaway:

3.) Many times I realise when I am in that state of emotional distress, and use Mindfulness to help me feel better and be productive.
But so far I have yet to be rational enough on every occasion, and so I sometimes forget I can use mindfulness, and I fall.

I have to be better at my "early warning" process, and recognise when tension and stress are building.

A fall is rarely an instant thing, it builds up over a series of days.

Lou wrote on 26 Jan 2021 20:29:

I kind of also feel that way Lou. I mean, I tend to exaggerate on the sugar for instance. It's definitely a "way to fill the void". IMHO I kinda of agree with what has been said. It's certainly wise to look into your "baggage" i.e. why do you lust? why do you "crave" kosher things? I feel like every addiction is a means to fill a void. Trying to understand what is it you lack, could be productive. And that, only you can answer with soul searching. Looking at your past and stuff. That being said, it's very good to be practical too. If you exchanged P&M for three slices of cake, I'd call that a win too lol.

To not further highjack R"G's thread (lol just joking), I've been so down and low these days that the regret was almost completely gone. It was going on a daily basis. Since I'm not married anymore, I felt like "I wasn't lying to anyone". Of course I was lying to Hashem. But perhaps going back to when I was married:

Onset of Urges:
1-Lonely. Total despair of the events that were unfolding. Need to numb my pain. In my situation "it's totally mutar" (lol crazy how we convince ourselves right?)

After Indulging: 
2-The loneliness feeling just got bigger and the pain, greater. Where is my marriage headed? How long is this gonna go on for? Guilty. Sad. Feeling dirty and impure.

Takeaway:
3-Although in my case, I think the get was the right answer, I have been acting out recently for other reasons, like stress and loneliness. I think being a needy guy, one of my main remedies could be socializing more (hard to do on a pandemic). Perhaps calling a friend. I feel like I act out a lot of times, only because I crave any sort of human interaction (kinda crazy but I guess that's who I am).