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Starting Again...
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.

TOPIC: Starting Again... 4674 Views

Starting Again... 21 Dec 2020 22:15 #359331

  • Lou
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Hi, I have posted in other threads but just wanted to start this new one to get this of my chest.I guess i am venting more than anything else.To make a long story short,I have been a struggler for years with these issues. This includes watching and also chatting with online relationships etc. BH over the past few years due a variety of reasons things have greatly improved in this area. Don't get me wrong. It wasn't fixed but the issues were less serious(trying to avoid triggering{embarrassing} details. As it still was certainly an issue eventually I recently joined GYE and working on the 90 days etc.I have started and failed more than once but I understand that is part of the process. What is really getting to me and is actually confusing to me is that my most recent fall was to a level worse than I have had in a few years! In other words,when I was working on the issues less officially i was staying away from that level. Now that I am working on really cleaning up my act I have stooped back to my really low levels Why?? It definitely was some Hashgacha Pratis in this as I was faced with a nisayon I have avoided in the past. Is Hashem telling me that now that I am stronger I should be able to deal with nisayon?? Well, I didn't...
Any feedback is welcome! 

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 00:36 #359335

  • YeshivaGuy
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Lou wrote on 21 Dec 2020 22:15:
Hi, I have posted in other threads but just wanted to start this new one to get this of my chest.I guess i am venting more than anything else.To make a long story short,I have been a struggler for years with these issues. This includes watching and also chatting with online relationships etc. BH over the past few years due a variety of reasons things have greatly improved in this area. Don't get me wrong. It wasn't fixed but the issues were less serious(trying to avoid triggering{embarrassing} details. As it still was certainly an issue eventually I recently joined GYE and working on the 90 days etc.I have started and failed more than once but I understand that is part of the process. What is really getting to me and is actually confusing to me is that my most recent fall was to a level worse than I have had in a few years! In other words,when I was working on the issues less officially i was staying away from that level. Now that I am working on really cleaning up my act I have stooped back to my really low levels Why?? It definitely was some Hashgacha Pratis in this as I was faced with a nisayon I have avoided in the past. Is Hashem telling me that now that I am stronger I should be able to deal with nisayon?? Well, I didn't...
Any feedback is welcome! 

Hey, so first, Welcome back!!

Regarding your question, here’s my understanding.
When one engages in porn/other sexual related things, there are chemicals that go throughout the brain (dopamine etc).
Over time one gets used to a certain amount of dopamine, so in order to be “turned on” they need something more intense...

So it may be, that though you are working on yourself, which is spectacular, there remains a biological reality taking place, which is that over time you need more dopamine/extreme things to get the thrill.

I think they say it takes a few months or something to start requiring back the brain...

For example, it used to be for me I would t be able to have WhatsApp without staring and masterbating to bad gifs.
And now, that’s not a taiva/nisayon for me so much. I need something more intense.
As much as I’d love to beleive that it’s because HaShem is giving me a bigger nisayon, I genuinely genuinely beleive 100% that that’s not the case.
Ive just become numbed...

Either way, not something to worry/obsess about too much...
Just keep working and keep shteiging!!

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 02:01 #359350

  • Grant400
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Lou wrote on 21 Dec 2020 22:15:
Hi, I have posted in other threads but just wanted to start this new one to get this of my chest.I guess i am venting more than anything else.To make a long story short,I have been a struggler for years with these issues. This includes watching and also chatting with online relationships etc. BH over the past few years due a variety of reasons things have greatly improved in this area. Don't get me wrong. It wasn't fixed but the issues were less serious(trying to avoid triggering{embarrassing} details. As it still was certainly an issue eventually I recently joined GYE and working on the 90 days etc.I have started and failed more than once but I understand that is part of the process. What is really getting to me and is actually confusing to me is that my most recent fall was to a level worse than I have had in a few years! In other words,when I was working on the issues less officially i was staying away from that level. Now that I am working on really cleaning up my act I have stooped back to my really low levels Why?? It definitely was some Hashgacha Pratis in this as I was faced with a nisayon I have avoided in the past. Is Hashem telling me that now that I am stronger I should be able to deal with nisayon?? Well, I didn't...
Any feedback is welcome! 

The way I understand it is like this. Since you are actively fighting and trying to rid yourself of this forever, your subconscious is scared. How can it give up it's candy? Its drug? So as soon as you release the breaks, you dive in head first like a hungry bear. The mentality is, that you should "chop arein" as much and as intensely as possible before you give it up completely.

Just keep doing what you are doing. Eventually you will wean yourself of of this harmful drug.

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 02:53 #359369

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R Yeshiva guy,
Thank you for your response!
I do agree with you about that concept in general and I have experienced that as well. However,in this case it wasn't really like that. It wasn't that I needed the extra bad stuff to get where I wanted to go. I just was faced with a greater Nisayon than usual and failed miserably.I was just wondering why the Nisayon for even worse behaviors than I have done in quite a while came now when I am taking improving more seriously. Am I more clear now?

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 02:59 #359370

  • Lou
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R Grant,
Thank you for your response.
This explanation does resonate with me somewhat. Not sure if exactly thats what happened but I definitely have had that general hargasha.
This fall was real bad. So much so that although I have BH been able to rid myself of the nisayon,I am still thinking and fantasizing about it and wishing I could just do it for one more day...

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 03:08 #359372

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Finally found it... 
guardyoureyes.com/articles/stories/item/keep-fighting?category_id=403
We always need to remember that the Y"H wont give up easily... he will sometimes take out his strongest weapons... but in the end we will iyh win!

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 03:59 #359377

  • Lou
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Thank you!
Great story and really applicable! I happen to enjoy hot dogs as well! But BH I am totally fine with the Kosher ones:smile:

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 04:42 #359385

  • YeshivaGuy
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Lou wrote on 22 Dec 2020 02:53:
R Yeshiva guy,
Thank you for your response!
I do agree with you about that concept in general and I have experienced that as well. However,in this case it wasn't really like that. It wasn't that I needed the extra bad stuff to get where I wanted to go. I just was faced with a greater Nisayon than usual and failed miserably.I was just wondering why the Nisayon for even worse behaviors than I have done in quite a while came now when I am taking improving more seriously. Am I more clear now?

Ahh, got it got it. 
Hard to ask “why” in relation to internal/non logical desires, but I hear ya, and hopefully the chevra here will have pshat

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 06:04 #359391

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True... I guess more of a rhetorical question... Why Hashem Why??

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 06:15 #359392

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Lou wrote on 22 Dec 2020 06:04:
True... I guess more of a rhetorical question... Why Hashem Why??

Yaa, not sure buddy. 
Understanding the Kavana of the Ratzon HaShem isn’t really my department
Im more into dealing with the facts as they come.

But I definitely relate to the feeling, as far as I’m my own nisyonos...

Re: Starting Again... 22 Dec 2020 21:58 #359436

  • Lou
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New question... I am someone that enjoys my food. Good meals ,snacks etc Nothing fancy just good old fashioned food.I remember hearing from a Rebbe years ago that the yetzer hara often will use food as his pesach to get in. Once you are hooked on fressing he just keeps you going to the other stuff... On the other hand,I remember being told that sometimes it is good to have a (somewhat)harmless Taiva to give into so you can tell yourself to enjoy it instead of the bad stuff. What does the chosheve oilam think?
This can come up also regarding rewarding yourself. Sometimes I will tell myself,if you clean for a week than go have that Chulent Thursday night etc etc. Am I just feeding it to the YH? I have noticed that sometimes it will work and sometimes I will fall soon after so not really sure.
Thanks

Re: Starting Again... 23 Dec 2020 02:21 #359444

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Enjoy your food after making beautiful brochos!  Even better, reward each successful day with something you enjoy. Obviously do not go overboard, but it is very important at this stage to feel good about yourself. Healthy pride goes a long way.  Your Rebbe was discussing a concept which is true and valid, for someone who bh is not confused about sexuality, and is in control. Iyh you will be there soon, and you can then revisit this issue. Meanwhile bon apetit!
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Starting Again... 23 Dec 2020 06:49 #359482

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Thank you HHM for your clear and understanding response. Can you just clarify what you mean by the term "confused about sexuality"? I would to understand better what you mean by that.
Thanks

Re: Starting Again... 23 Dec 2020 10:53 #359490

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Lou wrote on 23 Dec 2020 06:49:
Thank you HHM for your clear and understanding response. Can you just clarify what you mean by the term "confused about sexuality"? I would to understand better what you mean by that.
Thanks

That's a subject for a long shmuez. For starters, think of it this way. Obviously those of us who have been using sexuality as our pacifier for stress, rejection, boredom, loneliness, etc, as well as those of us who spend hours objectifying women either via pornography viewing, fantasizing, or focusing on women in the street, have a most messed up idea of why Hashem put this force into the world. Our basic premise is that it is a vehicle of selfishness - soothe me, pleasure me, satisfy my (imagined) "needs". Sex becomes an end for itself.  In reality, sex is like icing on the "cake" of intimacy. It is the apex of a warm loving  giving and sharing and bonding relationship.  The irony is that the real thing - true intimate and giving sex is incomparably more satisfying. Let's face it -.A good piece of cake with a bit of icing is geshmak. Icing by itself is nauseating.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Starting Again... 23 Dec 2020 22:03 #359527

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Thank you very much for that clarification.
I love the Mashal. I would like to think that I have this concept clear regarding my own wife and intimate relations. The part I have probably been confusing is more regarding other issues related to sexuality.
Does this make any sense? I have to think this all through a bit but thanks for the food for thought.
My apologies if this thread is starting to really belong in the Marrieds section.
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