This is my first time back on the site in a couple years. I have been busy... I have had good stretches and bad stretches. Currently, I have been struggling. Today (after a couple classes) I felt I needed some "relief" so I looked at some P. I told myself I needed it and there was no stopping myself on the comp. (I get ard. the filter w a proxy). So, that is that...
I'm going to go now - continue with this later...

strugglingguy


Do you really feel that you need it to live a happy life, that you can't live without that "relief"?

hi there!
make sure to hang around here dont just say hi check out all the info you need .
kol tuv

Why continue anything later? Let it just be over and done with!

Hi, old friend.

Welcome back. If there is a next time you feel you need some relief, stop off here first and see what happens. You just might be surprised.

Hatzlacha in all things GOOD.
chaimyakov

In response to ur question - We all know the feeling, all of a sudden we tangibly feel the YH in our (ear) mind saying "Ok, you need this" OR "You should check this out, it'll be exciting". At that point, most of the time I dangerously proceed to pursue what my YH is telling me. If I have to take care of something else at that moment (that I feel is important enough), it may postpone or even push away what I want.
Occasionally, though, I will say a 2 second Tefilla in my head - "I hope I get out of this ok" and then proceed the same way as option #1.
So how do we deal with this UNINVITED distraction? I have said this man times before - when I don't have any Taavos, I look at myself and my "struggle" and simply cannot relate. Why do I need to "act out" at all?!
Of course - the answer is that Aino Domeh myself BSha'as Taavasi L"myself B'She'aino B'Sha'as Taavasi. I think we can all understand this. It is extremely frustrating as we can all imagine. Any tips for what to do in that crazy, terrible moment?!
I look forward to your comments...
Please keep this conversation up - as chaim yakov - my good friend - said -- the more I focus on this site, the less time I may have for other stuff...
Thank you all very much already

Just to clarify my technical situation ... I am home a lot in the afternoons - since i have grad school work to do. My wife is school or work usually. My username on the comp (a PC) has a windows filter (don't ask about K9 - i've been there done that already) which works really well. I cannot even get onto youtube. NOW, the issue is Proxies. That dirty word. It gets around a lot. Therein lies my issue. You might say "You NEED to go out and do work elsewhere (library) and I would be modeh to you, in theory. It is just hard (esp.) in the winter to leave comforts of my home. Also, I feel like even if I do manage to get out and do my work in lib ONE day, the NEXT day I will be back at home with the comp.

Also, I recently got the Shmuz Fight series Cd's. I am starting to listen to those....

Sometimes knowledge does help, even when the yh is whispering in your ear. Knowing that we really don't need it, that we really can live just fine without that release, should make that argument of the yh weaker.

The question is what do you believe?

You didn't ask, but...



It sounds to me that you simply have not suffered enough pain from your lack of self-control. I wish you no pain c"v, but it seems to me that whatever pain you have had is just not enough to help you take this seriously - perhaps it has only been private and theoretical pain. Philosophic pain. Like the horrible guilt and the idea of gehinom, etc.

And of course, in the long run, all that stuff proves useless to pretty much all the people here - for they are still here, still falling, still looking for the magic bullet. 'More chizzuk may do it, no?'

Private emotional pain is not useless in terms of getting a person's attention or getting one to post here. It's great for that. And for so many people, the first step towards getting freedom was posting here! Boruch Hashem for GYE! But see how for most of them, it cannot end with that. The guilt that brings us here just does not get us to actually do something that solves the problem. The vehicle stalls at this comfy level. The battle remains respectable by being called 'a fight against the yetzer hora', and the many who keep falling back, remain bewildered.

And they quietly, slowly slip away...as you did. And most never return for the same roller-coaster ride. Too shameful. Who can blame them?

Most guys who come here and yet do not get better, obviously need more than just posting here. They need to be doing something that is far more real than hiding behind a computer using a fake name and writing shakla v'taria with people who (for all practical purposes) do not exist in their lives.

So you have come back. That's great - and I remember you, too! But what now?

I think it's great that you took a vacation from GYE, but just notice how you just disappeared w/o any result - and how you just came back when you liked - poof! WE all may really care and sincerely try to help. But is this a true relationship - is there really any responsibility here? No. For you (and any of us here) can just disappear...and we often do! And that's really OK!

The relationships here may be very helpful in some respect and may be a great start, but they are not real enough, man. They are sweet relationships of convenience, and so: 'easy come, easy go'.

But if you get caught, get fired, or defamed publicly for doing the stuff you do in private, and the whole naked truth comes out to people who know you and love you - the realness will be there. The search for the most respectable, comfortable and convenient way out of this habit will suddenly end. Real measures will be taken.

And you will be fine with Hashem's loving help, as many are, one day at a time!

What a welcome back you are getting...sheesh...

dov - u are right - this site is much like comments section on websites with articles - u can say whatever u want (to anyone else) but it doesn't matter all that much.
nice to be back in contact w u also
i have done more than this site, but maybe not enough: I texted a couple friends about my issues and one said that we should speak, but we have not gotten a chance yet... i could have picked closer friends that it would embarrass me more to tell, but i didn't yet. i'm not sure even how this approach would help me because i don't have to tell them anything - maybe they would check in with me, but I would have to wait and see...
a year or two ago, i saw a counselor to talk out my issues also
i hear what u are saying though... but my wife knows about my issue also - i just don't tell her every time i look at something. maybe i should. ...


sorry about the flow of consciousness ramblings...

It's going to be so great for you in the long run that your wife already knows about it. But what you tell her, is a thing you two need to work out. Good advice is needed and G-d will have to help you a lot. It's impossible for anyone who doesn't know you well to give you advice or belabor you two with easy general rules like 'never tell her this' or always 'tell her that'.

So opening up to people is gonna be a very big part of the learning process, I bet. And as you can guess, books on this topic will probably be totally useless.

But I'm sad you wrote that being more embarassed is a part of this thing. It's not. Gevalt. Is this a 'truth or dare game' or something?

Lemoshol - telling a person who would be more damaging to your reputation, or klopping on the bimah, would do you no good whatesoever - while telling your trusted Rov, a good friend who knows you well and understands something about porn and masturbating, would probably be much better. You are right that telling absolute strangers who have no shaychus to you is much easier - and so, basically worthless - in comparison to speaking in honest, great detail about exactly what you do, how often you do it, and when you do it.

In SA, we write an inventory about the first time we discovered the sweetness and power of porn, voeurysm or erotica, and masturbation. We write down on real paper our exact and detailed history of what we did from then, till the last time we used the stuff - without ANY self-analysis or explanation. Just the facts. v'chosem yad kol odom bo.

And we share it openly in our homegroup meeting, where the people know us for we have been going and sharing and listening, for some weeks or months.

The entire excercise is the way we really see whether we are addicts, or not. If we are, it also helps us accept the truth about things rather than continue engaging in our familiar, convoluted self-analysis, 'battles', and stories. Keeps it simple.

You do not need to do that in an SA meeting. You can start writing it out today on paper. Keep it well-hidden, and finish it in a few days be"H. And when you are done, share it all with a trusted person who understands what you are talking about and will not just get a heart attack. An addict in recovery would be perfect for that. For if you choose a guy who cannot relate and cannot admit to you that he has ever masturbated, you are probably wasting your time. The honesty will be a one-way street. Useless. And using your wife for that (as I have posted before) is probably just chicken and cruel. People actually pick their wives to be open to (davka their wives, mind you) simply because their wives have as much shame about the facts being exposed publicly as the guy does - so he knows his secret is safe withher. Pathetic. A captive audience. And unless she is a trained therapist, a woman cannot understand and cannot help - especially if she is as invested in the guy's sobriety and acting out as a wife is.

And finally, if 'chizzuk' (rather than self-honesty) is the only thing your chosen friend can think of to give you in response, then he is just trying to save you and inspire you...and I submit you'd be completely wasting your time there, as well.

Just one eitza you can do.

Hatzlocha!

PS. There are many of us who discover that we need to be completely honest with our wives - if we act out our lust and actually look at porn, engage in phone sex, go to a dirty business, or masturbate ourselves, etc. Most of us, actually do that.

But sharing your inner desires and doubst about the lady at work you see every day, your sister-in-law, or videos that replay in your head? No. Those things are usually cruel and useless to share with one's wife. I am not giving you a 'rule of thumb' here, just an opinion. As I wrote above, how you apply this stuff is betwen you and your wife and should be discussed OPENLY with her.

Hatzlocha again and pardon my rambling on and on, too.

Dov


Just out of curiosity: Are there people who go to "real live meetings with real people," who are there, but are still falling? Are there people who go to "real live meetings with real people" who suddenly "take a vacation" when they fall?

What do you tell them when they come back?

Do you tell them that everything they've done until then was obviously a failure and did no good?

Would I be wrong to suggest that if as soon as someone messed up in the 12 step program, he was told to throw in the towel because "it obviously didn't work," there would be a lot less people working the program? It's not that the 12 step program didn't work - it's that he didn't work the 12 steps, right?

Why would facing a bunch of people and saying, "Hi, my name is Bob," make a person more open and honest?

I've been on GYE for almost a year and a half now and I've improved tremendously. Yes, I've had a few slip-ups, but throughout, I've stayed connected and have gotten back up. Yes, I have a username that is not real, but that doesn't take away from the real person that I am, and I don't view any of the other people with usernames any less real. I have made real friends here on GYE. I chat with them, talk on the phone, have met some, and I now even have 2 chavrusas that I first met here.

Why do you insist that GYE is fake?

skeptical wrote:


That's exactly what Dov is sayin', to make it more real, to go beyond only using the username and posting in cyberspace. If not for GYE I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am now, but if I had only stuck to posting I doubt I would still be here, and even if I would still behere, it would cerainly be with a few more falls on the chart.

I don't fully agree.

I ended up meeting people from GYE, because we formed a bond. Even with the usernames, we were able to connect. Without having those real relationships first, and gaining each other's trust, there would not have been meetings.

In fact, after my first meeting with a GYE member - we spent close to 2 hours talking face to face - we both came away from it without that awesome groundbreaking experience that others raved about. We chatted, spoke on the phone, met in person - different method, same relationship.

don't know who is right, but I think it is beneficial to have both schools of thoughts on this site here. You need Dov and his followers to talk strongly about opening up to real people, for there are those that are "in hiding" (even from themselves. On the flip side, you need people here, and there are many who say, "Post, chat, read the book, find a friend, take your time, call a chaver, etc., for that works as well....especially with people who are honest with themselves, and they are committed as well.

And yes, I know you will say, "But why bash?" but to me, that is part of the strength of the argument to one side, while in truth, there is another tzad as well.

Did I add anything? Probably not.

I am, however, speaking from my experience....I did both methods and am extremely please with the results of both.

b'hatzlachah