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TOPIC: Tikkun Haklali?... 932 Views

Tikkun Haklali?... 04 Apr 2013 23:49 #204253

zvi
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I've been having an ongoing (perfectly friendly) argument with a friend of mine for some time now about saying tikkun haklali. He thinks if you say it you're pretty much guaranteed to stop being mz'l, but I'm somewhat sceptical. However, I keep fallling again and again, while he's been clean for quite a while. Still, at the same time, it seems quite strange. How can saying 10 perakim of tehillim, however powerful they may be, help someone to stop? Obviously, tehillim helps, but why those 10? What's in tikkun haklali? Any thoughts?

Life’s a mountain. You just gotta keep climbing…

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 01:10 #204269

mr. emunah Current streak: 121 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 1139 Karma: 43	Rabbi Nachman's Tikkun by rabbi Green baum BRI publications www.eichlers.com/rabbi-nachmans-tikkun.html I don't think it is supposed to help stop, it's more about fixing up what we screw up in the Shamayim by our screwing it helps free the nitztotzot which where captured by the klippa I say- Say it say it whenever you like, but it's not a recovery in and of its self

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 01:26 #204277

gibbor120 OFFLINE Platinum Boarder NEVER EVER GIVE UP! Posts: 5251 Karma: 166	I think there are many people here who say (or said) tikkun klali and they are still here. You can draw your own conclusions. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but there is no magic. Work is work and there is no substitute.
	My Home \| My Links \| Dov Quotes \| Dr. Sorotzkin \| Handbook \| Additional Tools \| AA Audio \| Shalom Bayis \| Skep's Tips

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 01:53 #204280

Machshovo Tova OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 1230 Karma: 26	The source of Tikun Klali (the 10 kapitlich Tehillim) is in Likutei Maharan by Reb Nachman - see part 1 chapter 205 & part 2 chapter 92. He says specifically that this is a "tikkun" for the "pegam" of "mikreh laylah" (accidental nocturnal emission). He does not say that this is a tikkun for intentional masturbation, and he does not say that this will help avoid any future pegam habris. MT

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 01:56 #204281

Avrom
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The maharsha asks if "hakol min hashomayim chutz m'yiras shomayim" how can we daven at all to get more yiras shomaim or not to do aveiras etc.. and in your case to say tehilim. He answers, that pryaer works with "habo letaher mesayin oso" Habo letaher - starts with tefilah.
If you noticed, unlike by other bakashos, its only "mesayin (-helps)" Meaning, a person can daven as long he he wants - hashem himself will not simply win the war for us. BUT will assist and infuse us with the ability to obtain the strength we need to win the fight.

Last Edit: 05 Apr 2013 01:57 by Avrom.

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 01:58 #204283

zvi OFFLINE Gold Boarder Posts: 224 Karma: 11	So is there any point in saying it for intentional masturbation?
	Life’s a mountain. You just gotta keep climbing…

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 02:03 #204284

reallygettingthere Current streak: 72 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 759 Karma: 27	IMHO no. Not that i have any knowledge of what is accomplished in the upper spheres. It seems to me that saying tikkun klali for some gives them a false sense of accomplishment. This in turn will delude you to think that you have made strides in battling your yetzer hora.
	Roy in the SA White Book noted that we frequently prayed and it did not work...because the best we could muster was begging G-d to "Please take it away, so I will not have to give it up! No amount of sobriety can cure the insanity -ChaimCharlie The emmes hurts but fake chizzuk will hurt more -Bards Remember, best block, no be there - Mr. Miyagi

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 02:14 #204288

Avrom OFFLINE Expert Boarder מודים אנחנו לך Posts: 150 Karma: 9	Of course! (Even though i think its main purpose is the mzl of the past - not preventing it from happening again) But often, it backfires because you feel that the problem is taken care of. And being in the "i-said-tikkun-haklali-ill-never-masturbate-again mood" makes you a easy target! So watch your back! -speaking out of experience

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 02:55 #204297

reallygettingthere
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i posted this a few days ago
reallygettingthere wrote:

My dear chaver,

I'm gonna say this as bluntly as I can (because I love you of course)

As long as you feel that tikun klali and mikvah are integral to your rectification process, you will probably never break the pattern of fall/hocus-pocus.

Let's face it if all it takes is a hot bath and a few hail marys to fix a 5 hour porn binge, why would anyone one in their right mind try to abstain from a life of lust, testosterone and dishonesty?

Our sages teach us that the ~~teshuva~~ recovery process is different for someone who is ensconced in sin. Under normal circumstances the chronological order is 1. confession, 2. regret, 3. resolution (not to sin again) and 4. azivas hacheit which means "leaving the sin".

Our sages teach us that one who is up to his eyballs

in sin needs to do step 4 first.

That's right. Focus on stopping now.

Chabibi, don't worry about how the she-deomons are gonna hurt you and start worrying about what you are hurting yourself and the people around you.

With love, admiration and hope,

Eli

Roy in the SA White Book noted that we frequently prayed and it did not work...because the best we could muster was begging G-d to "Please take it away, so I will not have to give it up!

No amount of sobriety can cure the insanity -ChaimCharlie

The emmes hurts but fake chizzuk will hurt more -Bards

Remember, best block, no be there - Mr. Miyagi

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 11:13 #204309

Blind Beggar OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Not a sexaholic, just trying to be good. Posts: 780 Karma: 12	Machshovo Tova said it. A tikkun fixes the past and does not and cannot influence the future except to relieve your poor neshoma of some of the burden of tuma that it has to carry. Mikva is first, then Tikkun Klali, and then you have a better chance to try to work your program.
	The Blind Beggar is a character in Rebbe Nachman's story of the Seven Beggars. If I view a woman as an object, I am powerless over lust, but I don't have to look. I can guard my eyes. I want to guard my eyes. I do guard my eyes. Why do I say these four lines?

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 15:34 #204318

Shlomo	Poskim write, that saying krias shma al hamita helps a lot. In it's entirety.

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 22:50 #204363

mr. emunah Current streak: 121 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 1139 Karma: 43	also saying Psalms 1-4 before retiring in the evening

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 05 Apr 2013 23:00 #204365

mr. emunah
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And if i may Reiterate,

You need to have yer plan (see-Rabbi Frand's siyum hashsas speech)

how yer gonna stop

but yer still jewish

and it says what it says in the holy books

about hedemons and shedemons and captured children and shechina in exile and fallen sparks and husks... ... ...

bekitzer it's a bit of a mess.

so I think it's always good to wipe the seat and flush and brush yer teethy's and vacuum yer rug at least once a year whether it needs it or not...

so if a Sadiq like Rbbi Nachman advised to say this, I would say it's not a bad idea.

remember you ARE saying tehillim,

learn the translation, the explanation, make it meaningfull

try to say it on happy occasions too, like yer birthday, or yer wedding day etc...

don't let it make you think that you can do whatever you like,

remember these are the words of King David in personal prayer with the Lord.

Bueno Sabbado!

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 08 Apr 2013 11:54 #204464

needshelp22
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The notion of saying Tikkun Hakalali was originally for someone who accidentally was mz'l, I dont believe there is a Makor for it being anything more than a Tikkun, certainly not a method of prevention or anything more.
The sefer Taharos Hakoedsh which deals extensively with Pgam Hayesod mentions the Tikkun Hakklali just once i believe, in the Maamar Tikkun Hayom. It seems that nowadays there is an over emphasis on this which may be ultimately counterproductive.

Re: Tikkun Haklali?... 08 Apr 2013 20:58 #204518

help613
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I find that once you recite the psalms, or even go to the mikva after having either a accidental or a intentional ejaculation helps to avoid further intentional falling, since from my personal experience it makes you feel stronger, purer and closer to H' which before falling next time makes you think twice !!

For anyone who does not have the booklet, these are the psalms,
16, 32, 41, 42, 59, 77, 90, 105, 137, and 150

Thanks inastruggle