[quote="Avrom" post=203037]skeptical wrote:


Keeping clean for 90 days is not prove whether you are an addict or not, I say this from my experience, as well as many other AA and SA members witnessed; some of them were successful to keep clean/dry for much longer periods than that.
There is the famous story in the AA book about a guy who was successful to keep ‘dry’ for 25 years and then fell back to Alcohol and died after a few years.

Avrom wrote:


Then Mr Emunah wrote back:




Wow. How does he say things without 'megillafying' them as I do! Please teach me!!

Anyhow, Avrom, instead of thinking, can you get a bit more clear - no, really completely clear - about the exact nature of your problem? Do you want to talk it over on the phone in detail with me? I will gladly share with you the exact nature of my problem (what I do when I act out though it has been years since I needed to, with Hashem's free help) and you can then have the comfort level to open up to me about what you do and how often you do it and what leads to it? Until you are clear about what you really do and how often and what the patterns are, you may just keep mentally masturbating your brain with your death-zome worries and cheshboning about what you should do, if it will be enough, and if you really need something else...and you will do nothing but worry. We are all good at that. You are not special in that respect, chaver.

What'll it be?

If not me, then can you find someone else? There has got to be someone you can open up to. Once we are in your type of Gordian knot, being honest with ourselves is IMPOSSIBLE until we have been completely open with another real and safe person first.

Thank you so much for the offer. I very much look forward speaking to you!

Avrom wrote:

correct as a bochur it is more differcult to see how its unmangeble i posted somewere the questions try to read them and anser it

i found them

here are some questions Test Yourself


1.Have you ever thought you needed help for your sexual thinking or behavior?
2.That you'd be better off if you didn't keep “giving in”?
3.That sex or stimuli are controlling you?
4.Have you ever tried to stop or limit doing what you felt was wrong in your sexual behavior?
5.Do you resort to sex to escape, relieve anxiety, or because you can't cope?
6.Do you feel guilt, remorse or depression afterward?
7.Has your pursuit of sex become more compulsive?
8.Does it interfere with relations with your spouse?
9.Do you have to resort to images or memories during sex?
10.Does an irresistible impulse arise when the other party makes the overtures or sex is offered?
11.Do you keep going from one “relationship” or lover to another?
12.Do you feel the “right relationship” would help you stop lusting, masturbating, or being so promiscuous?
13.Do you have a destructive need—a desperate sexual or emotional need for someone?
14.Does pursuit of sex make you careless for yourself or the welfare of your family or others?
15.Has your effectiveness or concentration decreased as sex has become more compulsive?
16.Do you lose time from work for it?
17.Do you turn to a lower environment when pursuing sex?
18.Do you want to get away from the sex partner as soon as possible after the act?
19.Although your spouse is sexually compatible, do you still masturbate or have sex with others?

Um, there are 20 questions. All u have here are 19.

Which one did someone leave out? It's probably the most important, telling one.

Dov wrote:

u teasing ?

No, I am serious. There are 20 questions in these that are taken from the SA pamphlet and 'White Book'. Someone listed them here and took one of them out. I do not think that is right.

I doubt it was left out on purpose, probably a simple cut-and-paste error.

Anyway here is question #20:

20. Have you ever been arrested for a sex-related offense.

Most people form the general public who come to SA, come for one of two reasons, either because they are in trouble with their family or they are in trouble with the law.

As opposed to most frum yidden who come to SA who do not identify with the above missing question.

I assume that is why it was missed out.

Gevura Shebyesod wrote:
Ooh, you are way too 'nice', chabibi.

Gevura Shebyesod wrote:

now i remember i left it out on purpose as most people don't relate to it as moish uk said and get put off completly NO I'M NOT A ADDICT

Avrom wrote:

I can relate. I'm still single and hope to start dating soon. When I started really fighting the fight and began using the 90 days I just believed that it would work. I grasped at the straw which seemed my only hope for it ever getting any easier. I also definitely questioned whether I was truly an addict. (I'm still not sure but not as worried about it anymore.) I got to 90 days on my first try and fell shortly thereafter. I haven't reached there again (yet!). My next 2 long streaks were about 50 and 70 days (76 ended this past Motzei Shabbos).

What I have learned in the 6 months that I have been using the 90 method is that it is not really "day 90" that matters it is each and every day on which you worked on your addiction/yetzer hara (doesn't matter which) during those days. Like they say "one day at a time". The days add up and when you have reached 90 in a row or hundreds clean (not in a row necessarily) you will look back and realize that it has changed you. I can testify that 6 months ago I couldn't have picked myself up from a fall in 24 hours like I did this week.

So whether you are an addict or not and whether you will be an addict after 90 days shouldn't matter so much. I think what you are really looking for (I know that was what I was looking for when I started) is reassurance that it gets easier and that I can give. Will we ever be "free"? No, like you said the "yetzer hora will not let go until my final day" but it will get easier.

melost wrote:

I say that is thinking too much. Next you will say that if I lose my sobriety I better not admit it here on GYE because many who read my "daily dose of dov" in Guards chizzuk emails might be dissilusioned with SA or recovery in general and c"v drop this site saying "if it does not work for him, then it probably won't work for me!"

If I worked that way I would be not sober today. WE ADDICTS - MORE THAN ANY OTHER TYPE OF PERSON - CANNOT TOLERATE PLAYING G-D. THINKING AND MANIPULATING THE TRUTH OR FACTS IS OUR IKKAR MACHLOH.

OK, enough all caps...a reminder of the bardichever (with a small "b" as he liked it!)

Methinks we Gyers need to ask ourselves how serious we are about recovery

If we knew it would take (chulilu) an arrest to shape up, would we honestly say

Af al pi ken, it's kedai to come free

are we willing to be moser nefesh

are we willing to get rid of the BUSINESS RELATED IPHONE (UNFILTERED) WHICH WE NEED NEED NEED for business, but we have fallen on many times,

are we willing to give it up to hashem even at personal cost?