You're right... So what are u suggesting is that a person can control himself just making consciousness? Personally I do believe that the power we have in our minds it's very very strong and I agree 100% that a guy can control himself, his taavot, feelings, midos, etc with his mind.

R' Zelig Pliskin talks a lot about that in his books.

But I think we are too weak to try that method, I think our desires are much stronger that our mind, that is why I found a better way to stop the Taphsic method, (although the cognitive way is much more "civilized" because it implies thinking and not controlling yourself by external factors)

So when I said I'll try both, I meant making conscience that I do have a choice, I'll try to repeat it all day long, but at the same time... I don't want to trust in myself and leave me without a stop. Hopefully when I get better, I'll do only the thinking, because ill have a better control over my mind.

Thx! G'night!!

- Help! Help! Somebody stole my truck!

-4x4?

-Hmmmmmmm... 16.... Now help me find my truck!!!

I remembered someone likes trucks...

Antartic wrote on 03 Dec 2012 05:51:


I am suggesting that there is a feedback loop from your own behavior to your beliefs. If you stay sober through a neder you'll just reinforce the belief that you have no choice.

You see that in the concept maris ayin, you are not allowed to behave in a way that could be interpreted to conflict with the Torah. I am not talking about the Torah now, I am just making an example that you are probably familiar with. Maris ayin applies even to a Jew who is alone. That's because you watch your own behaviors and you process them and reinforce certain beliefs. Behaving as if you are overwhelmed may keep you sober but it does not remove the wrong belief that you are overwhelmed. You are not overwhelmed, you act out because deep down you think this is your best chance at happiness. Even with the pain, with the depression etc. you still believe that.




Since secretly it's your choice to act out you are not too weak. You act out because you believe you are too weak. Eventually you give up trying and start thinking about sex. If you never did the yetzer ha-ra could do nothing.

Believing that you have no choice allows you to secretly tell yourself that you are a tzadik. When you beat yourself it hurts but it also supports your existence, because that is what a tzadik should do, beat himself up for doing an averah.




But reminding yourself that you have a choice will not build up the belief that you have a choice because you will attribute your sobriety to the neder in order to preserve the option of acting out later if your life becomes too much to handle, and still secretly believe that you are a tzadik.

If I had a button you could push right that would ensure you would never act out again, would you push that button at this time in your life, or would you think about it a bit longer?

Antartic wrote on 04 Dec 2012 23:32:


Here's a truck just for you! ;D

nederman wrote on 05 Dec 2012 01:20:


Hmmmm I suspect this is a tricky question...
Obviously i'll push it, no doubt.

What's your point?

This thinking thing could include success in life, parnassah, relationships, etc?

Ans as I said, R' Pliskin in his book "Gateways to Happiness" talks about this.

Antartic

Great. Believe it or not, many people want help but they don't want to push the button, because they don't know what's on the other side, but it sounds as if you can visualize it right now. Yes, it affects every part of your life.