I am going away with my wife. We booked a hotel wit ha jacuzzi in the room. We want to have a very good time. I feel like i need it and she also wants it. In the beginning of the year I told her that I have decided that this year we wont watch porn when we go to a hotel (something we used to do). I am looking forward to this getaway.
Is there a problem with me (us) for wanting to act out on my fantasies with my wife. Isnt is better than masturbation. I still dont know if I pushed too far. 

In theory no or not that much.  But taking a quick glance at your post history.

Jacuzzi muttar?
Sex pills?
If masturbation was mutar...?

You seem to have a lust problem but other then joining this site you don't seem to have put in the slightest bit of effort into doing something about it.

You sound like you are fishing for an answer.  You are leading the witness.

If you are asking in terms of halacha - check the shulchan aruch or your rav.  You didn't mention anything in your post that sounds assur though.

If you are asking if it is healthy behaviour for an addict, then I suggest that "the more you feed it, the more you need it" applies to any type of lust, even lust after your own wife.  So practically speaking, feeding lust, just makes you hungrier for more lust.

I am not telling you what to do,  I'm just pointing out the reality.

Hold on there partner  8) 8)
I totally agree with Me3
I know you want to kick this thing but believe me your barking up the wrong tree
instead of fantasizing about this unbelieveable weekend away with your wife
you need to let go of the lust and focus your attentions on avodas hashem
of course its really important to have a dynamic and loving relationship with your wife
which can be very pleasurable - but that can not be the  end goal
making yourself feel good by acting out fantasies with your wife is just using her as your masturbation machine ( sorry for the phrase)
having sex is about giving to her rather than taking
does this make sense

Just want to let you know that because of GYE I was able to make that no-porn commitment for vacationing. I have not masturbated for three months straight. I have not watched porn or even lusted it for the past two months. GYE has helped me tremendously.

I admit, I have a problem, I still lust for men and women but I am able to control it (for now). Every morning I pray that today will be successful. B"H I am. The 12 steps were a big help. I also recently replied to someone else on this forum. I do not have perfection But I have much progress.

My taava however is still here. I dont think it will ever go away. My question today was if the olam thinks its better or worse to have some indulgence once in a while.

newavraham wrote on 18 Jan 2012 21:18:

If you do "indulge" once in a while, do not be fooled that this is "helping" you to get better.  It simply doesn't work that way.  I'm not saying it's the end of the world.  Just be honest about what you are doing and what the result will be.  It will make it "harder" not "easier" to resist more lust.

Newavraham

I wish you only the best.  There are 2 ways to go about overcoming addictive behaviours. 1. Is to physically deny yourself access to it.
2. Is to work on yourself to make you not need it or to develop the tools internally that you need to fight it.

You seem to be doing #1 but not #2.  To only do #1 is doomed to fail .... eventually. (Ever hear the term "dry drunk"?)

You can tell me you are working the steps and all that, but your posts say that you are living in lust.  You may be fooling yourself but you arent fooling anybody here we are experts at fooling ourselves, we've already given ourselves all the excuses we can.  But we came to realize that all lust destroys and we can't beat the addiction without controlling lust.

but enjoying your wife on vacation need not conflict with your road to recovery

its a matter of shifting your focus from lust to healthy normal married life

when you decide to commit on recovery and never allow sexual expression to take place with anyone other than your wife in a healthy way.

Dear Newavraham,

So far, your posts seem to me to be ways of talking dirty in this public forum. If you feel the need to attack me personal for saying that, so be it. But what is this business of trying to get as dirty as you can and get away with it?

If it works for you to masturbate then go right ahead and masturbate. It's not between you and us, but between you and your G-d. If you want to porn yourself to pieces with your wife and have a great time, go right ahead. Who is stopping you? "GYE"?

C'mon, sir. If you are really married, at all, then I'd ask you: Why are you not doing whatever you are not doing with your wife? Why not? I guess it is not guilt or religion, but because it does not work for you when you 'endulge'. Right? Why else would you be stopping (if you really are)?

I mean no disrespect, but you can see what I am saying by reading your posts from the start till now. Gibbor and Me3 are refrring to that. Your posts used to be outright sex-talk.

What are you trying to do? Are you sensitive to the fact that others may be getting off on your fantasy talk?

Finally, if you are really here because you want recovery, sobriety, and to live a better kind of life than what 'comes naturally' to you (that's why I and others are here), then why is it not working?

If you are really so dissatisfied that you must pose risque questions on a recovery forum, then how about growing up and finding real live safe recovering peoiple to meet and speak with to save your behind? Not other sexually charged men who want to go to the mikvah with you  : - but really recovering people.

Quit hiding behind your safe little username and get your behind into real recovery like others here have.

Hatzlocha,

Dov

I just want to second Dov's post (as well as Gibbor's and Me3's).
The Mikve story? I was being triggered in a big way...And this jaccuzzi proposition? I think that it may be too much even for the Baalei Batim Forum, and you should have known better.
So maybe you just need an adjustment of delivery, or maybe you do have an agenda, but either way: what most people come here for is to share their current struggles and get chizuk. Am I wrong? So try to keep your sharing to that, if possible.
Thanks,
Mottel

A quote from Chapter 16 of Mesilas Yesharim:

As they said about Rabbi Eliezer (Nedarim 20B), "He would expose a handsbreath and coceal two handsbreaths, and it seemed as though  he was compelled by a demon." He received no pleasure from this, and he performed the deed only because of the mitzvah involved and because it was an act of Divine service. And in this vein Shlomo said (Mishlei 3:6): " "In all your ways know Him and He will align your paths." (Page 105 of the Feldheim translation).

Hopes this clarifies a bit. Good luck!

NY, The same gemara says that a person may do as he wishes with his wife.  We are not Rabbi Eliezer.  We need to try to focus on loving our wifes, not lusting them.  I think that is quite a big enough of a goal for most of us.

Thank you all for blasting me. I like mussar and accept all of it. It helps me know where i really stand.
Regarding being able to talk dirty in this forum, I have a few things to say.

First of all Dov, about my mikve story, it seems that you think I was wrong for posting it. How do you expect people to recover if they can't let things off their chest. I NEEDED to print the story where others can respond to it (like you did). I dont mind being BLASTED to pieces, I just need to hear what people say to it. Secondly, it should have been a chizuk to others who are in this situation. At the same time its a warning. I told of how hard it was to overcome, but i did anyway. Then I warned the readers that I still fantasize  sometimes. You have to know that its a fight to the end. If you make all stories end "happily ever after" like a great fairy tale, it becomes just that!

You took some sharp shots at me. I know you meant the best and also said the things you did out of anger in me (in your opinion) trying to exploit the GYE program. I can handle that. But CH"V if it were someone else, you would've turned him off.

Going back to my taavos, there was a few month gap since my January post and the one before. At first, true, I wanted to know what I was allowed to do - after all I have a lust for these things. but I went through the GYE,, let things off my chest, accepted guidance and went through the program. I have not visited GYE until now, when im about to go on vacation. It's hard to keep fighting your yetzer hora all the time, and yes, i wanted some approval to let loose with my wife a little. I did not ask if we can watch porn, I already said on Rosh Hashana that I would not do that (this was posted elsewhere.) I asked about pills and you call me a baal taava, Me3? How wrong of you. Dont you know that there comes a time where your testosterone diminishes and you are not as hard anymore (bluntly put)? It was insulting Me3.
Now is going to a hotel with a jacuzzi off limits for frum people? It sure sounds like it from the responses. I know that you cant all possibly agree to that. A husband and wife are meant to enjoy each other. And if you need a jaccuzzi once in a "vacation" while, go for it! How can you be an expert in helping people if you talk like that. Indeed a moderator in GYE sent me a  message saying that if you use it as a spring board for a healthy marriage - enjoy!
Watch how you talk. I DO help people but I have to be careful too, dont you?

NA,

I think the point that people are trying to make is that you can't go halfway with this, it won't work. As long as we wallow in lust, even in "permitted" ways, we can't expect to be able to let go of it. We need to learn to not lust at all. So there are things that are muttar, and even good, for people to do with their wives. Normal people. But for us it's like we have an allergy, and we can't tolerate even a little of it. So we have to lean over the other way. Like the Rambam (?) says, that even though moderation is the goal for most Middos, when a person wants to break a bad Midda they need to go to the opposite extreme.

There are some here who have even (with the agreement and support of their wives) committed to many months of complete celibacy, in order to "starve" the lust. I'm not saying you need to, and it should be done under the guidance of a Rov, and maybe a professional too. But the point is that ANY lusting is bad for us.

All the best,

Gevura!

newavraham wrote on 19 Jan 2012 15:27:


I would think not either.  But if its so poshut, then why ask in the first place.  One reasonable view is that you simply like to advertise your fantasies and how you fulfill them.  Moreover, the focus of all your posts seems to be how far can I push my tayvos, rather than how do I reign in my taivos and get myself on the road to recovery.  So instead of telling us how you are going to exploit your wife, why not tell us and talk about how the steps you are taking to stay sober from porn, masurbation and lust.