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CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion!
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TOPIC: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 991 Views

Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 13 Jan 2012 06:05 #130756

  • neiroyair
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Trying to not let my emotions get a hold of me.....too much. But I appreciate you asking.

I feel that I don't connect deeply with people too well. For example, someone will tell me how good sushi is and I'll be thinking "C'mon, man. Do you live to eat or eat to live? All it is is rice and vegetables, fish whatever. You probably just like it because it's trendy. It's not like it satisfies your hunger!" and the like. Or if someone says I should exercise, I think: "But I don't see my rabbeim lifting weights or going to the gym and they seem to be better off just learning and teaching Torah. I shouldn't feel comfortable doing it, either."
I feel like no one else thinks the way I do, but I'm just trying to be a good eved Hashem. It's just a very lonely proposition sometimes. I feel like the only people that like to talk to me are the ones that no one else has patience for.

The truth is I can have a conversation with anybody, but I'm always on the giving/listening side of the conversation, very rarely offering my own insight or opinion, but just making the other person feel good.

Anyone else have this dilemma? (Please G-d Almighty, let there be SOMEONE out there who does...  )
You are not the weakest link…Goodbwell hello there!
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 13 Jan 2012 14:51 #130783

  • gibbor120
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I can identify with much of what you wrote.  It sounds like you are very critical  and demanding of others and of yourself (at least in your mind).  Sounds just like a perfectionist.  Learn to accept yourself with all your flaws and you will come to accept others as well.  It's a much happier way to live.
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 15 Jan 2012 03:01 #130812

  • neiroyair
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Now it's my turn to quote Dr. Sorotzkin      I was just listening and he said something very important: "When was the last time you actually did something PERFECTLY? Maybe once in the last six months?" That really struck a chord and I'm still digesting that and applying it to my ever-working mind.....

Yasher Koach for the "referral"!
You are not the weakest link…Goodbwell hello there!
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 15 Jan 2012 03:28 #130816

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Also, it's not like I say these things too often, but they bottle up inside of me and make me nuts. On the outside though, I'm all smiles and sympathetic to anyone who needs an ear. So, the critical aspect is only inside of me. But on the other hand, I've trained myself to be non-judgmental and to love everybody, but I guess it hasn't spilled over to loving what everybody does.....
You are not the weakest link…Goodbwell hello there!
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 16 Jan 2012 14:30 #130906

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Yes, because a perfect person doesn't criticize.  So you try and play the part as 'perfectly' as possible.  You want to be viewed as sympathetic and not critical even though your head is filled with critical thoughts.  I know this because that is me.  And if you are like me, then that is you. 

I am trying to learn to accept myself and others so I don't have that critical voice going off in my brain.  I don't need to focus on everyone elses minute flaws.  Most of them are probably not even their fault.  ACCEPTANCE is the key.  Hashem is in charge and made me a certain way and made others with their flaws.  by acceptance, I don't mean to accept the way it is and give up.  I mean to make peace with the way things are (after all Hashem designed it that way - right) and then work from there.

As Dr Sorotzkin puts it.  Striving for excellence rather than running from failure.  Are we trying to escape that critical vioce by being perfect, or are we happy with who we are, but want to be better.
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 16 Jan 2012 14:56 #130909

  • TehillimZugger
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?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 17 Jan 2012 00:44 #130955

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But gibbor, let me ask you- And this is after listening to Dr. Sorotzkin and his very accurate portrayal of me- What is the difference between an unhealthy perfectionist attitude and striving to serve Hashem b'lev shalem by bringing perfection to His world? I'm still not sure I can differentiate.

And Tehillim, at one point I started skimming what you wrote, but never got back to going through it, so thanks for the link. But to you, I ask: If we are all just a bunch of categories, then what bechira do we really have?! I mean everything I've struggled with growing up to understand how people work and think will all be for naught, if we are all just a bunch of different categories thrown together, and asked to make Shalom among ourselves. Then we really don't have ANY power over anything, no? I am ABCD with properties EFGH and I will interact well with IJ and K, but not L or M, oh NO, not M, he's a different breed.... ;D I know what you're thinking: P Quiet, will ya?!....
You are not the weakest link…Goodbwell hello there!
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 17 Jan 2012 15:15 #130982

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NeiroYair wrote on 17 Jan 2012 00:44:

But gibbor, let me ask you- And this is after listening to Dr. Sorotzkin and his very accurate portrayal of me- What is the difference between an unhealthy perfectionist attitude and striving to serve Hashem b'lev shalem by bringing perfection to His world? I'm still not sure I can differentiate.

As per the Dr.  The difference is in the motivation.  Is the motivation a FEAR of failure.  I want to be perfect because I don't want anyone to have tainos against me, including the RBS"O.  Or is it the desire for SUCCESS.  The litmus test is how you feel when you are 90 or 95 percent successful - do you still feel like a failure? Or, do you appreciate the success that you did have.

In one of his lectures he quotes someone that says that you need to be happy to just be a simple Jew without any madreigos.  Only then, can you truly acheive madreigos.  So, if my striving for excellence stems from my disgust with who I am now, it's unhealthy.  If it stems from me being happy with who I am now, but I want to be so much more, then it's healthy.

I too am still grappling with these concepts, but i feel that they have at least pointed me in the right direction.

I hope this helps.
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 17 Jan 2012 19:00 #130995

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NeiroYair wrote on 17 Jan 2012 00:44:


And Tehillim, at one point I started skimming what you wrote, but never got back to going through it, so thanks for the link. But to you, I ask: If we are all just a bunch of categories, then what bechira do we really have?! I mean everything I've struggled with growing up to understand how people work and think will all be for naught, if we are all just a bunch of different categories thrown together, and asked to make Shalom among ourselves. Then we really don't have ANY power over anything, no? I am ABCD with properties EFGH and I will interact well with IJ and K, but not L or M, oh NO, not M, he's a different breed.... ;D I know what you're thinking: P Quiet, will ya?!....


the Tanya right in the beginning, explains [thanx gesher 4 signing me up to damesek where i get to hear rabbi benzion twerski's amazing shiurim] that every person is made of four yesodos- Eish Mayim Ruach Afar [or as matisyahu puts it -earth water wind fire- we stay low while gettin' higher] someone who has more eish, struggles more with ego and anger issues. someone who has more mayim struggles more with lust,  someone who has more ruach struggles more with restraining from nonsense,  someone who has more afar struggles more with laziness.
there is no question that every person in the world is different, has different attributes and a different phsycological makeup. and that you can classify each person as belonging to certain group. [am i the only one that reads the binah every week? ? ? ?]

אגב


דעות
כתוב בהקדמת החינוך ששש מאות אלף הוא חשבון הכולל כל דעות האדם [מלבד טף ונשים]. וצ"ע דהרי אמרו חז"ל (סנהדרין דף לח) דמלך מלכי המלכים הקב"ה טובע כל אדם בחותמו של אדם הראשון ואין אחד מהם שוה לחבירו ושם דבשלשה דברים משונה כל אחד מחבירו בקול מראה ודעת. וידוע הלשון בתנחומא "כשם שאין פרצופיהן שוות כך אין דעותיהן שוות". ובהערות על החינוך הוצאת מכון ירושלים הביאו מהרמב"ן ורבינו בחיי דהא דאין אחד דומה לחבירו היינו אחד משש מאות אלף.

?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?
Last Edit: 17 Jan 2012 19:55 by .

Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 17 Jan 2012 19:35 #131015

  • gibbor120
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TehillimZugger wrote on 17 Jan 2012 19:00:

someone who has more mayim struggles more with lust

I guess that's why a lot of the GYE images have someone drowning .  Too much mayim .
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 17 Jan 2012 19:52 #131021

  • TehillimZugger
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earth water wind fire
we stay low while gettin' higher
spark of life
ingnite entire
fly alive
weep wail
chant
climb the darkness out
grab the last line
life shouldn't pass me by
rise
to the ocassion
keep these hearts all blazin'


i should really start a matisyahu quote thread
?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 17 Jan 2012 20:06 #131022

  • gevura shebyesod
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"Azay Ovar Al Nafshainu Hamayim Hazeidonim"

"Ki Ba'u Mayim Ad Nofesh"
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל


"If it would be so easy there wouldn't be a GYE, but if it would be impossible there also wouldn't be a GYE."
"Sometimes a hard decision leads to an easier outcome."
- General Grant


My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 18 Jan 2012 01:59 #131043

  • neiroyair
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Whoa! Confusion! I think ein mayim ela Torah rises above all of that, no? And also, all that talk about everyone having different struggles and makeups also leaves me feeling down, because then I feel that no one will truly ever understand what another person is going through. TehillimZugger, close your eyes for this... Except one's wife who is literally the other half of one's neshama.

One should really use his wife for the binah yiseira (Not the binah magazine, Tehillim- Cuz I know you kept reading on .......While on the subject, I too skim the magazines pegged for balabuste's  ;D  8)- It's cool. It shows your feminine side.)

They really do know how to read you, assuming you don't hide anything from them. Unfortunately though, I think too many people are focused on the physical, materialistic aspects of one's wife and that's not fair to you and your growth or her as a person.
You are not the weakest link…Goodbwell hello there!
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 18 Jan 2012 09:17 #131058

  • TehillimZugger
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obviously you still didn't get around to reading my "four" posts so herre's a small likut- not realizing it- you are labelling yourself a four

They feel like outsiders, somehow flawed and different from others,


they felt that their parents did not see them as they actually were


From childhood, Fours felt essentially alone in life.


Fours felt that if they could discover who they are, they would not feel so different from others in the deep, essential way that they do.


Fours also begin to develop a sense of ego identity based on their difference from others. There were few qualities in their parents that they identified with, so Fours began to inventory all the things that they were not—all of the ways in which they were unlike the people around them. Eventually, this sense of difference becomes a strongly developed and defended part of their self-image and many Fours have difficulty seeing the many ways in which they are like everyone else. To be "ordinary" becomes a frightening prospect, since a sense of "being unique" feels like one of the only stable building blocks of their identity.
Their disconnect from their parents also produces a longing for the "good parent"—the person who will see them as they truly are and validate the self they are trying to construct. Fours usually experience this as a longing for an ideal mate or partner. They will often project this role onto new acquaintances, idealizing them and fantasizing about the wonderful life they will have together. Unfortunately, as Fours get to know the person better, they become disenchanted, realizing that the other is not the "good parent" who will rescue them from all their problems. He or she is just another human being with flaws and shortcomings. The other’s "blemishes" soon become the focus of the Four’s attention, and they lose interest in the person. Before long they are back to their search and fantasizing again, but generally with less hope of finding the person "of their dreams."



They want to complete themselves by associating or merging with the valued other.

?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?
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Re: CONFUSION! Pure and utter confusion! 19 Jan 2012 01:34 #131115

  • neiroyair
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Gulp!
You are not the weakest link…Goodbwell hello there!
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