I'm confused and very down. I tried waiting for 24 hours to pass to see if I could bounce up, but I'm yearning for more. I can't believe that after all this chizuk and helping others, and finally opening up I committed spiritual suicide. It hurts me so much. What am I going to say now if someone asks me, "so, is GYE helping?". 

I'm thinking maybe I should put the forum aside for now and try to work on myself because I'm always concerned about others. Chayecha kodmin. I know words like these have been posted before, so do you all agree? Please help ASAP! I'm so angry at myself! But, I'll stop here because why should I bring your spirits down with me.....

Vayechi- and NeiroYair lived and I know I will keep fighting, but arghhhhhh! I just want to shoot myself sometimes. How can someone be so prepared and still give in!? All the gedarim, all the shmiras eiynayim, and yet still!? I'm sorry, I'll stop rambling now. Thank you for listening.

Kol Tuv everybody and have a peaceful, uplifting Shabbos.

We are davening for you NeiroYair.
The fight only got easier for me with the realization that i couldn't beat it by myself, in fact i couldn't beat it any more at all with all sorts of help, filters shmilters, divorce shmivorce jail shmail (btw the last two were just potential results not actual experince-B'Chasdei Hashem Yisborach).  Tons of anguish and years of frustration seemed to vanish b'heref aiyin.  This keeps me going, "Hashem, i am being tested right now and i can't win without you taking it away now, please."  To me the ikkur test is will i ignore Hashem and try to fight alone or will i give Him all the credit and go hide in my corner until it is safe to come out again.  Zehu.
Chazak, Chazak, v'nitchazek!!!!!!!!
chaimyakov

Beautiful thought from Chaimyakov.

Neiro, you need a plan for your recovery.
And gedarim are part of a plan, but there needs to be more.
There needs to be a change in YOU.
What are YOU willing to DO?

Stay strong.

I feel for you at the dissapointment in having to answer, "is GYE working for you"?  That can be like the worst feeling.

I thought a certain mehalech was going to save my marriage.  So far I'm still married.  But I have struggled with the fact that it might not work out in the future.  Is the mehalech a failure, am I a failure?  Sometimes, the greatness is in dealing with the failure, not preventing it (although stopping is clearly the goal).  I wouldn't leave here so soon.  I would learn how to react from here.  That will be the sucess of your growth here, moreso than the fact that you fell again.

This fall is just another opportunity for growth. Everyone falls during recovery; You need to know that this is just an opportunity for major growth. Hashem wants to see you get up as soon as you can and get back into the swing of things. Does it make you upset that you fell 6 months ago? Of course not. So why are you upset about this fall now? You have the ability to just let go and move onward. Don't look back and cry over the spilled milk. Just move onward and you'll be happy. If you can hold on for a few days now, I promise that you will look back on today and realize clearly how this was just a test of your ability to let go and move onward. In a few days, this fall will just feel like another of your falls from months ago; You'll be so happy that you let go and moved onward (or as the cliche phrase goes: "kept on trucking"). Everyone in recovery learns eventually that you have to let go and stop living the past and the key is living the present.
Don't be angry at yourself. You are trying and you care about what matters. Everything will be ok.

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thoughts! Really. I mean that with true sincerity. Maybe the one avenue I haven't traveled is the one saying I CAN NOT win this myself. Hashem is always on my mind and always with me, but yet I still think I have the power. Sharing my pains and struggles may just be the thing I've lacked all these years because I have held it in. It's not easy, but the truth hurts. And it may hurt bad, but then you know it's the truth. Bli neder this week I will try thinking along these lines and test out my new-found attiude (Hashem ya'azireini)

Hey Neiro,

We're all human and not perfect people. Making mistakes and falling is part of the recovery process. You shouldn't beat yourself up over an accident or a momentary lapse. Instead, use it to your advantage and assess what led to your fall. If it was a lapse of vigilance or carelessness, then see where you can strengthen your fences.

If it was purely accidental then maybe the test was just to see how quickly you would get back on track. Just forge ahead and don't dwell on it. Yesterday is already gone but today is a present.

Have a great new year,

DL

try to make a graff see where you were at a few weeks ago and where you are now.Every fall is such a learning experience,it will help you a lot to speak out your experience with a live person with experience in this stuff.Hatzlochah you have echoed my thoughts so well.Thanks for sharing.

Interesting idea mechazek. In my mind, though sheva yipol tzaddik v'kam so it's hard to visualize what path a graph might take. How do you label the graph?

And by the way, I started reading mainly through the materials and answers to my concerns are as clear as day. Oh, Ribono Shel Olam! I wish I could have done it myself and shown you how much I care, but now I'm beginning to see that a MAJOR factor in overcoming this issue is sharing with others and drawing from others. It makes me feel weak that I couldn't do it, but as I've seen Dov write, ego is a major hurdle (By the way, Dov are you there? Where'd you go? No need to reply because I've got so many others here who echo your thoughts, but I feel like since I praised you on a different thread you haven't said "boo". ) I NEVER try to let my ego get in the way, which is why I may be construed as a "push-over" type, but A) That's not true and it doesn't seem to match my personality that I'm struggling with these issues, which are ego-based- I need "pleasure", I can fight the Yetzer myself, etc. etc.

I need a support group and I need to unload and share my guilt and shame with others. I'm definitely not there yet, but hopefully I'm cracking through the system and my own inner tendencies. But as of now, I just still can't look people in the face for fear that they'll be upset or surprised or whatever if they found out my hirhurim processes during the course of a day and what they chas v'Shalom ultimately lead to.

Here comes Shovivim, baby!! I'm ready, are you?

I totally Identify with your post
its so hard to let go and realize that you ( I -whatever) are not strong enough alone to "win"
But here's the catch - its not about "winning"
despite the fact that Hashem does want you to have a 15 year clean streak etc
That's not how he is measuring you - he wants you to be closer to him period.
If you need to fall to get there - than that's his plan - even if its painful
so how can we avoid these falls - by pushing harder not only to be "good"
but by coming closer to hashem - to coming clean and pushing ourselves everyday to connect more closely than the day before
in that way its different from a diet or athletic training etc. where the end result is the goal
here the goal is the spiritual growth along the way and the kirvah

That's why is so important to "hit bottom" or at least feel that way - your frustration is actually productive and important provided that it motivates you to continue and move upwards rather than giving up and becoming depressed !

Hope that helps

It helps, but being a result-oriented guy, it's not easy. And as a perfectionist, how can I even comfort myself if I've swooped anywhere near rock bottom? I've been blessed with so much success in other areas of my avodas Hashem, but those were all areas I worked on on my own. Perhaps, like I said, this one is haunting me because I need to realize that others have to be involved, so I don't make myself appear like I'm perfect. Make sense?

I think reading around the site and the forum, I answered my own question.

Maybe that's why we're all struggling with this in our generation. Way back on one of my first posts I mentioned an inner feeling of mine that all the divisiveness we see nowadays is really the basis of this and all personal struggles. No one really responded to that one, but basically I was saying that during the period before the Chanukah story, Shimon HaTzaddik was a central figure that everyone looked up to and revered. But right when he died, I think I heard less than 7 days later, the kohanim omitted parts of the avodah (service) and things went downhill from there.

We lack that central figure and are confused when we see truth in other factions of Judaism other than ones we "associate" with. I never really understood what that means as I grew up on the premise that a Jew is a Jew is a Jew, but I see I'm outnumbered in that belief.....and that kinda adds to my loneliness- That I don't have a real 'Rebba', Rav, Rebbe, etc... or even chevrah

Neiro,

A Jew is a Jew, and beloved, cherished, and infinitely valuable to Hashem.  Live and let live.

That doesn't mean that everyone's interpretation or re-interpretation of Torah and halacha is equally accurate, valid and true.

I just posted this link on another thread.  You might find these Rabbi Sapirman lectures helpful too.

jdzign.com/ani/Order%20form%20110804.pdf

Having a rav is very important.  It becomes even more important when a bochur enters the parsha of shidduchim.

Your imaginary chaver,
Alex

NeiroYair wrote on 11 Jan 2012 01:12:

This is the most important thing you have said.  Opening up to real people is the key for me.

hi neiro how are you?