Is it a full bank account that triggers you or the "naked" one?

Chasima Tova to everyone here. I love you! I ask forgiveness from anyone I might have hurt.

Full steam ahead!
Gmar Chasima Tova!

Hey all,

this post has been helpful for me in the past for venting my feelings and getting great chizuk from everyone when I'm tired of eating leftovers, sorry, when I'm losing steam

So here goes;

Thank G-D, I've passed the 90 day threshold for the third time on GYE. I'm holding on day 97 aprox. The big question which my YH loves asking is why this time should be different? I've had a 120 day streak and a 170+ day streak and fallen. Why should I be able to go on forever this time?
But my answer to my sneaky YH is that he's right; I can't control myself fully, it's in Hashem's hands. But that won't stop me from trying my best and improving where there's room for improvement.
I realized that what kept causing me to fall after these great streaks was that I was letting my guard down a bit and removing some fences. That must not be. I have to keep up the appropriate fences and never let my guard down. I really can't afford to get cocky with my YH.
Well, today I had the closest thing to a fall that I've had in a long time. I almost fell. I was at the Doctor's office and went to the receptionist's desk to take care of something. My unfocused mind immediately took over: "alright, quick scan... the prettier one is there and she's your age too! Excellent!! Ok, don't look at her for no reason, don't look for no reason, don't think about her even though she's gorgeous, only look at her when she's talking to you" talking, "wow, she's good looking. Should I flirt? NO! That's wrong! Ok, I'll just give her nice smile when we're done, to be nice to her. Nothing out of the ordinary..." In the meantime, I started having a physical reaction although there was no emission thank G-D. When this happened, I decided to stop trying to be a flirt and just finish up and get out. As I left the office, a pretty and not too modest woman passed and it took extra effort to not look at her. I realized how those moments at the receptionist's desk had weakened me.
One of the harder areas for me seems to be this gray area where I'm talking to a woman and she's pretty. While I've gotten way better that I was and I can actually hold a normal conversation without my mind going too nuts, occasionally, if she's exceptionally stunning, I usually have a physical reaction. What's worse is that sometimes my mind tricks me into thinking that I need to be really nice. My mind starts berating me: "smile at her, compliment her, make her laugh". It's been really hard for me to not listen to those, especially if the girl is extra nice to me.
I do know the answer and it's a bit hard to swallow. The truth is that it's better to have her not find me too nice than to have a reaction. It may even be better for her to be insulted than for me to have a reaction. So I guess I need to just get a grip and... what? Not smile, not be friendly at all? Maybe just lower my friendliness a little bit? It's a hard call to make. I'm a friendly guy and it's hard for me to not be friendly. It's especially hard for me when women who know me and know that I'm friendly, get the cold shoulder when I speak to them. It's also tough for my ego, knowing that "now she probably doesn't like me as much".
Anyone have any chizuk or similar experiences to share?

Hi,

I've been reading some of your posts.  I admire your perseverance and to be quite honest I'm right now not doing so well myself and was searching the forum for the strength to to follow in your hard trenched footsteps. 

Anyways I just wanted to write in here becaus I saw that noone else has shared such a similar experience to yours yet.  I think it's fair to say that in the past 10 years about, and really almost all the way back since I hit puberty it's been a struggle to on the one hand be nice to women and not make them feel like a dirty magazine that I'm trying not to look at or else just feel bad that I wasn't noce to them.  I do think though that alot of the time we can be courteous, normal, and even considerate, without making the extra effort to seem cute, funny, or overly friendly.

Recently in my life I've been taking some college classes that have meant I have a lot of interaction with women, some who are attrative, some who are not so much. But I do find it really hard sometimes not to look where I shouldn'tbe looking or let my mind wander about things. Sometimes I will try to limit my interactions with them, but, then I worry that the will think I'm snubbing them or something - After all these are people that I work together withsometimes and who help from time to time, so I sort of feel like I almost need to keep up some kind of relationship with them.  And it only gets harder for me when they are nice to me.  I realize that this is kind of different than your experiences with the clerk at the dr., but I/ve had those too, except right now this scenario is more common. 

I wont try to offer any advice right now about how to deal with it, I just wanted to share my thoughts a bit.

My house is on the same block as an acting studio and a yoga studio. So all the actresses and models and yoga buffs constantly stroll around my house in their skimpy attires, which used to be a welcome site, and now makes it quite difficult to just get out of the house.
So last night I was walking with the stroller and a yoga-goer woman was walking towards me with her mat under arm. I looked away, of course. As she approached, she stepped to the edge of the sidewalk to let me pass.
I almost went into an overdirve: do I acknowledge her and smile and say thank you, at the same time taking her image in, for possible future use? Or do I just stroll by, looking away, and possibly cause Chillul Hashem, 'cause now she will think of frum Jews as rude grumps?
I chose the latter, 'cause my sanity is more important. But if I had to deal with someone on a regular basis?
My parents really did a disservice to me by bringing me up to be polite, and smile, and say hallo and thanks and excuse me...

Smile and say hello looking over her shoulder, not at her.

Do not blame your parents.

Sorry for telling you what to do. But you asked.

kidushashem wrote on 13 Nov 2011 13:59:


I think this is exactly right.  It's not easy to be unfriendly.  And as O'Mottel says, maybe even make what can be construed as a chillul Hashem. But if that's what we must do to remain sane, then that's what we'll do.

I have been working on this as well. I do need to speak with women and be congenial.  I am learning how to flash a quick smile, make brief eye contact, and then look away.  So she'll think my social skills aren't so good.  Overall, I haven't noted it to be a problem.  I think some women may even appreciate being treated like a person and not an object of admiration.

Shteig on.  You're doing amazing work.
One day at a time.
Forever is one day at a time.

Alex

thanks613, I totally relate to what you're saying and you definitely have it harder with your college classes.
thanksthanks613 for sharing:-)

omo, I don't know how you do it... I guess it's just obvious when you have women who are very untznius that you have to choose between impoliteness and insanity. I guess it's no real different than a modest woman who causes the insanity, right?

I still prefer the balance though of gibbor and alex where you look over the shoulder or give a quick nod, etc.
I think I'm gonna start testing this out!
Ok, next time something comes up, I'm paying extra attention. I want to get past this already...

thanks so much guys!

BTW, it seems like the effects of that experience were really powerful; Today I had a bit of a tough time as well, even though there were no major triggers... just goes to show you

I just had to deal with a less-than-tzniyusdige dressed customer, and it occured to me that once I got to know the woman, even her exposed [ bodyparts ] don't have that effect on me. So I guess it's about objectifying them afterall....

sounds very familier
i used to be in the retail trade for many years
and only fresh sillohutes awoke the fantasy, but as soon as she became a steady customer it was just about serving her needs, there was no more emotions involved
(unless she............)

good point. I actually went and spoke to that same girl at the Doctor's office again and it was a totally different experience. She even smiled at me really nice and it barely affected me. You just gotta stop objectifying people I guess...

there you go
(i would'nt do such a direct act, but its done, so now know for the future "its all imagination")

I had such a hard day today. What am I doing wrong? Ok, I know that I had a few triggers that I could have avoided, but why I can't I just be normal? Why is it such a huge struggle all the time?

I got really close to falling today. I kept getting these really attractive images in my mind. I'm not feeling so good today and my YH keeps screaming at me to go and m***** to feel better. I had this powerful urge as I was going to shower in some hot water. Some of my "best" experiences have been in the shower;
I got in and started speaking to myself; "Ok, I want to m***. Why? B/C it will make me feel good. It will be extremely pleasurable..." Uh Oh. "Ok that's true. It will make me feel better. But I still don't want to do it because it will make me miserable after I'm done. Besides, I'm an addict and I know that if I do it once, I'll do it again. In addition, it will make me feel better and alleviate my pain, but I'll just be running away from the source of the pain... Just like you don't treat a disease by m*****, you can't treat your emotional problems with it. I'll just get more depressed and emotionally unhappy and how will I deal with that? With more m***?"
BAM. My YH didn't stand a chance. I thank Hashem for another day clean. It was too close for comfort though.

Ok, Hashem did me a big favor, how do I respond? I don't know that he will let me off so easy next time I spend a full day without learning Torah or at least reading some chizuk material...
Time for a chizuk email...

Pray for help. pray for help. pray for help. before the struggle, after and during.