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why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"?
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.
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TOPIC: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 16285 Views

why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 13:11 #116708

  • hubabuba
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Why is (almost) everyone scared of writing the full word "masturbation", "pornography"?
It always says "m******, P******" or something like that.
It's like "He Who Must Not Be Named", for all you harry potter fans

The point is, when you are scared of writing it, it seems to me like there's a form of denial going on. Like, subconsciously, you're not willing to admit that you're really involved with this stuff.
I feel very strongly that you should not be scared of saying it, straight out.
Can you imagine a psychologist saying "well, have you ever, well you know, done, um, P&M, YEAH, THAT'S IT! have you ever done P&M?"
If we were clean it would be one thing; I can hear that some people are so distant from it and FEEL that it's so dirty that it's like saying "CHAZIR" instead of "DAVAR ACHER".
But for us? Are we coming from a holy place when we don't write the full word, or are coming from denial?

I'd love to hear other perspectives...
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 15:55 #116726

  • AlexEliezer
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Chazal teach us to use clean speech wherever practical.
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 16:11 #116728

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Yes, but his question is whether or not that is the real motivation.  I think many times it is in fact denial.  I know that I had a hard time writing it myself.  That's exactly why I forced myself to do it.
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 16:50 #116741

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I hear
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 20:07 #116774

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I think that for some people (maybe me) there could be a risk that even using the word "masturbation" or "porn" could cause them to start thinking about it, and that can quickly turn into a sort of, "Well... Don't you really want to do that?"

To be very blunt, and perhaps rude, but it's the only way to really express what I am basically saying; Its like saying the word FULL-CREAM-VANILLA-ICE-CREAM!!!!mmmm.... in a location where everyone is on a diet.
That's how I see it anyway, and you did ask for some other perspectives
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 20:40 #116784

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gibbor120 wrote on 29 Aug 2011 16:11:

Yes, but his question is whether or not that is the real motivation.  I think many times it is in fact denial.  I know that I had a hard time writing it myself.  That's exactly why I forced myself to do it.

Not only do I think that for most people, the real motivation is denial, but I think (just off-the-cuff logic) that even if Lashon Nekiya applies here, the value of being honest with your addiction would trump the value of speaking in clean language.
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 20:43 #116785

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NebulaMud wrote on 29 Aug 2011 20:07:

I think that for some people (maybe me) there could be a risk that even using the word "masturbation" or "porn" could cause them to start thinking about it, and that can quickly turn into a sort of, "Well... Don't you really want to do that?"

To be very blunt, and perhaps rude, but it's the only way to really express what I am basically saying; Its like saying the word FULL-CREAM-VANILLA-ICE-CREAM!!!!mmmm.... in a location where everyone is on a diet.
That's how I see it anyway, and you did ask for some other perspectives


and when you write p***, M****, then it doesn't make you think of it? If the meaning is clear, what's the difference if you say it clearly or not?
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 20:46 #116786

  • Gevura Shebyesod
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kidushashem wrote on 29 Aug 2011 13:11:

Why is (almost) everyone scared of writing the full word "masturbation", "pornography"?
It always says "m******, P******" or something like that.
It's like "He Who Must Not Be Named", for all you harry potter fans

The point is, when you are scared of writing it, it seems to me like there's a form of denial going on. Like, subconsciously, you're not willing to admit that you're really involved with this stuff.
I feel very strongly that you should not be scared of saying it, straight out.
Can you imagine a psychologist saying "well, have you ever, well you know, done, um, P&M, YEAH, THAT'S IT! have you ever done P&M?"
If we were clean it would be one thing; I can hear that some people are so distant from it and FEEL that it's so dirty that it's like saying "CHAZIR" instead of "DAVAR ACHER".
But for us? Are we coming from a holy place when we don't write the full word, or are coming from denial?

I'd love to hear other perspectives...


To carry on the Harry Potter analogy (i'm a huge fan), Harry himself, the one who was fighting the evil head on, had no problem saying the word. Everyone else couldn't say it, because they were (maybe sub-consciously) in denial.

So too, we who know the true face of the evil that we face and fight, should not be scared to use the necessary words to express our struggle.

Gevura!
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...





My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 20:56 #116788

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kidushashem wrote on 29 Aug 2011 20:40:

gibbor120 wrote on 29 Aug 2011 16:11:

Yes, but his question is whether or not that is the real motivation.  I think many times it is in fact denial.  I know that I had a hard time writing it myself.  That's exactly why I forced myself to do it.

Not only do I think that for most people, the real motivation is denial, but I think (just off-the-cuff logic) that even if Lashon Nekiya applies here, the value of being honest with your addiction would trump the value of speaking in clean language.


Yes, the torah says ainenu tehora to teach us the value of lashon nekiya.  OTOH, the torah generally uses the word tamei because a person should always teach b'derech kitzarah.  So when there is a benefit, one can use the lashon that is not quite as nakiyah.
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 21:02 #116793

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kidushashem wrote on 29 Aug 2011 20:40:

gibbor120 wrote on 29 Aug 2011 16:11:

Yes, but his question is whether or not that is the real motivation.  I think many times it is in fact denial.  I know that I had a hard time writing it myself.  That's exactly why I forced myself to do it.

Not only do I think that for most people, the real motivation is denial, but I think (just off-the-cuff logic) that even if Lashon Nekiya applies here, the value of being honest with your addiction would trump the value of speaking in clean language.

[shaking head in agreement]
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
~Cordnoy

The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
~TZ
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 21:03 #116795

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Gevura ShebYesod wrote on 29 Aug 2011 20:46:

kidushashem wrote on 29 Aug 2011 13:11:

Why is (almost) everyone scared of writing the full word "masturbation", "pornography"?
It always says "m******, P******" or something like that.
It's like "He Who Must Not Be Named", for all you harry potter fans

The point is, when you are scared of writing it, it seems to me like there's a form of denial going on. Like, subconsciously, you're not willing to admit that you're really involved with this stuff.
I feel very strongly that you should not be scared of saying it, straight out.
Can you imagine a psychologist saying "well, have you ever, well you know, done, um, P&M, YEAH, THAT'S IT! have you ever done P&M?"
If we were clean it would be one thing; I can hear that some people are so distant from it and FEEL that it's so dirty that it's like saying "CHAZIR" instead of "DAVAR ACHER".
But for us? Are we coming from a holy place when we don't write the full word, or are coming from denial?

I'd love to hear other perspectives...


To carry on the Harry Potter analogy (i'm a huge fan), Harry himself, the one who was fighting the evil head on, had no problem saying the word. Everyone else couldn't say it, because they were (maybe sub-consciously) in denial.

So too, we who know the true face of the evil that we face and fight, should not be scared to use the necessary words to express our struggle.

Gevura!


Nice! Now, how can we get horcruxes in there?
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 21:05 #116796

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gibbor120 wrote on 29 Aug 2011 20:56:

kidushashem wrote on 29 Aug 2011 20:40:

gibbor120 wrote on 29 Aug 2011 16:11:

Yes, but his question is whether or not that is the real motivation.  I think many times it is in fact denial.  I know that I had a hard time writing it myself.  That's exactly why I forced myself to do it.

Not only do I think that for most people, the real motivation is denial, but I think (just off-the-cuff logic) that even if Lashon Nekiya applies here, the value of being honest with your addiction would trump the value of speaking in clean language.


Yes, the torah says ainenu tehora to teach us the value of lashon nekiya.  OTOH, the torah generally uses the word tamei because a person should always teach b'derech kitzarah.  So when there is a benefit, one can use the lashon that is not quite as nakiyah.

shkoyach! where is this gemara? I learned it once...
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 21:08 #116799

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hmmmm.  I will have to look it up. If I find it I will let you know B"N.
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Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 21:09 #116800

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beginning of Pesachim, daf 3a. e-daf.com
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
~Cordnoy

The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
~TZ
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2011 21:16 by .

Re: why be afraid of saying "Pornography", "Maturbation"? 29 Aug 2011 21:16 #116803

  • Yossi.L.
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I think it depends on each person. Some people, such as myself, although very comfortable with saying masturbation when necessary, still have a sensitivity towards the animalistic nature of it. Although we are among fellow addicts, and we all have excessive familiarity with both porn and masturbation, we still have retained the sensitive nature of these sins.

When I was a teenager I attempted to defy this sensitivity and use the words "sex" and "masturbation" regularly to try to justify my addiction. I would make fun of those that felt uncomfortable when I would breach these subjects. How beautiful it is that the pintele yid within me has come out victorious. Although my yetzer hare fought a draconian war to eradicate the shame that was naturally placed within us, ultimately David conquered Goliath.
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