As a more practical step than being upset and just describing how you do not want things to be, can you describe how you would like things to be?

There is a lot of very practical stuff to be done that will help you tremendously here. But it all depends on whether you really want things to be different - or if you actually still want to have and enjoy the eye candy from your sister and from the street but just without having to pay the price of losing control of yourself in embarrassing ways such as having sex with yourself.

It may sound like I am asking a crazy question, or being cold. If so, then just ignore this post. I will not be insulted.

I want to be able to say "Hashem doesnt want this, so I wont do it", not do it, and go on with my life.  I want to value the spiritual, and be able to look at people and "see" a soul, not an object.  I want to really believe that sex is something that can be kedusha, but not in the way I treat it.  I want to believe my actions make a difference, good and bad.  I know these things, but I dont act on them or think/feel this way.  that is what I want...and my sister is not eye candy.  thats the only part I took offense too. simply because it is so wrong...

Wrong, shmong. You do it, you use it, so she is. Period. Sorry if this is offensive, but you are the one with the problem from it so you should know what it is that youv'e got.

If we are secretly a little turned on by reading about a rape in the newspaper (as evidenced by us noticing such stories and then reading a bit of them almost every time), then we'd best not be insulted by the insinuation that we take some pleasure from reading about sexual stuff - even if it is violence - and even to real people. Shameful, disgusting, yes. But it is true, and I would admit it freely in the middle of shemoneh esrei to my G-d any time (and I do such things, as needed).

As far as wishing you didn't like to do it so much, that's moral/religious fantasy and will not help you at all, as far as I am concerned. If we do something habitually and repeatedly, then (as the RMB"M says regarding 'shogeg' aveiros) it is not an 'accident' of any kind, but a revelation of our true personal priorities.

Shameful, maybe. But true.

Now the questionis what to do about it. We want the sweet feeling inside that porn gives us, and the great feeling of the acting out is why we keep doing it. Obviously. So the question the way I see it is actually, why should we stop? Not why does Hashem want us to stop, but why do we want to stop. Hashem has already proven that He will not stop us. We need to take some kind of step in that direction for anything to change...but why should we? That needs to be answered sincerely, not morally or religiously.

This is essential if we are to be sincere, for a change.

See, religious/moral arguments to stop are not really sincere, if we are obviously devoted to keep on acting out. That is the main reason we do not stop!

So...what do you say? Still want to look at my drivel?

"Ein hadovar tolui ella bee" means (to me) that Hashem will not stop me. He will keep me sober, but He will not get me there. I need to take the first step (and perhaps a few others). It is as if even He Himself cannot help me, if not for that. That is the first step of AA/SA.

Admission of the truth about me in steps 1 and 2 open the door.

Take it easy. Anyone can do it. Goyim all over the world are doing it every day and staying sober. be"H. Certainly Hashem's first born children (we Jews) can make it, too.

Dov, your posts are such a breath of fresh air and bring so much clarity to the confusion and befuddled mind of addicts!

Ashreinu that Hashem sent you here.

dov wrote on 18 Aug 2011 17:14:


אין מילים  :-X

It is so nice to see you keep coming back.I was hesitant to write this in middle of your conversation with dov but maybe this will help.
It seems like what you are experiencing is when a sexual thought falls into your head,you can not get rid of it as hard as you try it just doesnt go away untill you  just have to be moitzee zera.You obsess and obsess until you must do something just to get rid of the thought.Now the moitzee zera is not the real problem because you must do it or else you will go insane.The problem is your brain:it automatically thinks about the sexual thought and plays with it over and over untill ahhhhhhhhhhh I got to go to the bathroom and do it no matter how much you dont want to do it.
So if all this is true by you,then trying to get rid of this problem with YOUR brain is not going to work because it is so programmed you won't even know where to start and if you start for a little you will not get to far as you have seen.

I want a spiritually sound life, and there is no room in that for the shtus I am obsessed with.  I dont want to do what is wrong.  I want my external persona to match my secret activities.  I want to be what I expect myself to be.  I was almost in tears last night learnining about emes.  A true midda is one that is the same in public and private, and I rarely cry.  These are my sincere reasons.  ANd I cant do it alone.  I need Hashem's help, I just have to go give him some more room to work...I can almost feel the animal inside me and I just want to go attack it.  But sadly I am not a yaakov avinu...
Dov, as annoying (often truth is) as you are I appreciate your help.  Please, I have admitted this. What is NEXT!

mechazek wrote on 18 Aug 2011 18:25:

yup.  but I dont despair on the thoughts, as I do on the issur.  Granted they are both, but it seems more concrete and also I cant feel remorse when I feel a squirel gnawing at my soul...

I am sorry I did not fully understand your reply.Is it that you care more about the issur then the bad thoughts.

yeah.  But also, I only feel bad after I finish.  while my teiva is raging I cant think about teshuva, just getting through.

guardureyes wrote on 18 Aug 2011 17:23:

I am so hooked on Dov right now!!!!
And Reb Guard, can we please get a "LIKE" button just to highlight excellent posts?

strugglingandstrivngBT wrote on 18 Aug 2011 18:49:

Struggling!!!!! Give yourself a hug from me. You're hanging on, that's awesome!
Now: almost every cry out of yours has a practical advice opposite it in the Handbook. How you can not find it helpful escapes me.
You say the street is the trigger, you don't even need the internet. That's why you need to follow practical advice on Shmiras AYnaim.
You say the yetzer just talks you into it. For that you need constant chizuk. Are subscribed to the emails yet?
You say you feel the worst right after mas****ing: the book addresses that and advises you to take certain action right after to capitalize on the remorse.
It may be a good idea for you to ask one of the senior members here to read the book with you, point by point, and discuss it thru private messages or emails.
I'd be happy to do it with you, but I'm in the same boat as you: barely starting out on my way to recovery. People here have proven success record. Let them help you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh, and another thing:
I read your post about your sister before it was edited. Boy, did you plant an image in my head! Please refrain from explicitely describing your triggers, they are triggering to other people, too!
As far as wanting to replace that image with another one: swell idea! So being  a 23 year old with high moral standards, naturaly you don't want to act out on your sister's image, and you go and get yourself some real p***. That's great thinking! Notice, it's the thinking again....
I saw this great technique for image replacement. Maybe it'll work for you:
Elya K (moderator of the Hot-Line) writes:
Practically, we can control our own minds.  Sometimes it's better not to close your eyes for an
extended period of time because that brings on the images. What works for me is the following.

Think of a "clean" pleasurable image of a place you've been or an experience that you enjoyed.
Concentrate on this image for a while with your eyes open or closed. Feel the feelings, see the
picture and hear the sounds all around you.

Now every time an old image comes up which you want to get rid of, simply replace it with
this good image. 

There is a trick to doing this called the "swish" technique.  I can tell you how to do it
over the phone if you're interested.  Just call the hotline at 1-901-685-3256.  I'll call you
back or if I'm home I'll answer the phone.

I did this 9 years ago after passing by a place I used to go into.  Now, even 9 years later
when I drive by, I remember my good picture and all the memories fade away.

If you can stand being on this computer any longer you can Google "NLP Swish technique"
and learn how to do it.

be smart - stop thinking!

thank you all for the help. I dont even think I want it.  well not me, my yetzer.  I fell again.  i dont know what its going to take.  i feel numb right now.  i just want to get rid of this.  I hate it. i really do...I have WAY too much time on my hands nad way too little to do.  and i feel like it doesnt matter today anyway because of how bad ive done.  ugh!!  this one had no excuse.  i was bored and wanted to see if i could get around my filter and just watch something.  and it worked, and I fell.  everytime I say i want this to be the last time.  and everytime it isnt. 
practical other step-does it make sense to put periods where I allow myself to fall without visual stimuli to make it less daunting, and hope i dont when they come?  I saw something like that on the gye book, but the only problem is I know I am capable of full abstinence in the right setting.  its here that I have trouble.  would that make sense anyway?  my how the "mighty"(arrogant) have fallen....

strugglingandstrivngBT wrote on 18 Aug 2011 20:39:


Forget about today. This MINUTE matters! This minute you are still clean. And then another and another.....

hashem doesn't only count days, he counts minutes and seconds too.

KOMT!!!!


Gevura!