Dov,

Let's shake hands on that!  :D ;D

dov wrote on 06 Apr 2011 15:51:


I am not sure whether this is back to the tachlis yet, but it addresses one of the issues that WNGU raised initially.

willnevergiveup wrote on 05 Apr 2011 15:27:


Actually, it's like this.  We try to take the exact opposite approach of the Yetzer Hora.  His approach before you did the act was:

willnevergiveup wrote on 04 Apr 2011 18:21:


Because, he wants to minimize the sin so he can get you to do it.

Once you did do it, he wants to get you into a state of terrible depression, after all:

willnevergiveup wrote on 05 Apr 2011 15:27:


His plan is simple, once I am at the point of no return, I might as well sink lower.

Here at GYE, we have just the opposite approach.  Had you asked before the fact whether sleeping with a shiksa or even whether laying with her in the same bed and not having sex was okay.  We could have told you all the reasons why it was so terrible.  But that's history.  So we are nice.  And we try to show you that its not too late.  And in reality it's never to late.  But only if you get help.  And help is what you need.

Dov will not opine whether you are an addict since he is one of the nice guys on GYE.  I have my doubts about it even if you walked away from a strip club "without even peeking in," or you don't shake or you don't masturbate 50 times a year, but at the same time it is irrelevant because as a general principal people who act out live need live help to recover.  So whether or not you are an addict, you need help, ASAP.

Thought I kicked his behind pretty hard before.  Maybe he is listening, maybe not. But thanks for that sanity check again, UAJ, I need them every day, too.

Now back to our regular programming.   

Kedusha:  This is from the link you posted. 

I think it is quite obvious what he [Reb Moshe] is saying.

I once saw an adam gadol shake hands with a woman. When I later asked
him about this he replied. "When I was young an adam gadol told me that
one should not offer one's hand to a woman but that if she offered
her hand then it was permitted to shake it so as not to cause her
embarrassment. However after that I heard that the Chazon Ish held that
one should die rather than shake hands so I am not sure if the hetair
I received is still appropriate."

But yes, Dov I agree this is not the real issue since all us non-shakers obviously got a screw loose if we refuse to shake a woman's hand and then go back to our office and look at naked woman, which unquestionably is derech chiba, ltayavon.  The irrationality of it all was not lost on me at the time, but it never really stopped me either.  Go figure.

The quote ("I once saw an adam gadol shake hands with a woman") is not from Rav Moshe, but from R. Daniel Eidensohn, author of Yad Moshe (the index to the Igros Moshe).

The Dude who started all this is back!! Thanks everyone for being nice and not so nice. I appreciate it both ways.

The one who mentioned STD's got me really worried (If I would have though about this before it would have made a difference 100%. So I MSN'd the girl and asked her about her previous sexual history which she was not thrilled about. The last time she had Sex was 2 years ago (no wonder she was so desperate), and she has been fine since. I told her she must go to the Doctor and get checked out either way so she agreed to go tomorrow. If she is okay, does that mean that I am also? Very new to this (and to answer someone's question earlier this is the first time (and last time) I slept with anyone besides my wife.

I do understand where your coming from on GYE and the approach is important for addicts but no for one time idiots like myself.

You all say I need help, if it is regarding Teshuva, it is charatah Azivas hacheit, Kabala al Haba and of course davening. If it is so it should not happen again, I will BEH work on myself, specially with regarding Emess that someone mentioned. If it is regarding telling my wife, this not going to happen, why distress her terribly. No point.
Am I missing something is there anything else I need help for.

willnevergiveup wrote on 06 Apr 2011 16:32:


I wonder how you can be so sure of this when you are still maintaining contact with this woman.  It's not her job to get herself checked out.  It's yours.  And why in the world are you continuing any dialogue with this woman.  Sounds like your not being a "one time idiot" to me, but to put it bluntly a long term idiot.

Sorry to have caused you worry, but I don't see how the issue of STDs can be avoided.

The less of a history this woman had of sleeping around, the better, assuming that she's telling the truth.  You should still definitely undergo your own medical exam, and not rely on what she tells you (about her history and about her exam results).  You may need to undergo more than one medical exam over a period of time before you are given a clean bill of health.  You may be worried during this time, but try to accept the uncertainty as a Kapara for what you have done.

Whoa!! if you read the first post the girls sister is my supplier, we talk on MSN on regular basis. Her Sister lives with her. So while I was talking to her sister I got her to ask a few questions..  She is worried also so she decided she wants to be tested.
I can't stop dealing with my supplier.... and yes this was the first and last time I have slep with another woman.. period. I know where I messed up, what caused this to happen and next time I go to the country, I either take a shomer with or put strict kabalas on myself which do work (like the strip club incident did).

My last post was for Ur-a-Jew not kedusha. I will get some testing done also. I do believe she is telling the truth as in the country where I was, there is very little sleeping around.
I still can't work out how a man catches STD's no fluid from the lady enters your body??
I am worried sick and it is debilitating.

There is a very good chance that, with regard to STDs, you're 100% fine, or that a simple course of anti-biotics will cure you.  So don't be worried sick.  Take a few deep breaths and say to the Ribbono Shel Olam (in your own words) - "I'm so sorry for what I have done, please help it not affect my health adversely, and may any worry I experience until I am, b'Ezras Hashem, given a clean bill of health, serve as a complete Kapara for my aveira and for all my aveiros."

Although the worry will serve as a Kapara, that doesn't mean you should be as worried as possible.  Remember that we're all in the hands of the RBS"O at all times, and that only He, and not any human doctor, can guarantee us good health.

And may fear of STDs serve as a deterrent for all of us.  The RBS"O, in His infinite kindness, gives us strong disincentives for engaging in immoral behavior.

willnevergiveup wrote on 06 Apr 2011 16:48:


Well since you are maintaining contact, and since you were "half asleep and did not resist" I wonder whether you were protected.  If not, you may want to ask, through her sister (of course) whether she took a pregnancy test.

He is not 100% fine. He is a mess. Again, this entire track seems silly to me. This guy does not hear a thing, except the testing and negiyah mishegas. He is still planning to maintain contact with this same woman (for business purposes, of course - so nothing has been lost at all - for him! His wife has lost her husbands fidelity and doesn't even know it - but his business contacts must stay safe - and on friendly enough terms, I am sure. gedarim and shavu'os? Is that ridiculous? How much arrogance can we have in our ability to withstand more adventures in the future? This is arrogance, not frumkeit. And I am sure she did resent the implication that she might be infected, fine girl as she was...hmm. Indeed.

I need sobriety today. And may not be fit to deal with any more of this silliness.

Now go ahead and edit me.

Sheesh,

Dov

Thank you, Dov!
If someone wants to use the Forum as a member but not have other people seeing his name at the top or each page then look at the top right hand corner and see a little faint arrow head. Click on it and your name disappears. Great for admitting infidelities and not having your wife find out.

I won't edit you, Dov.  But I edited my own post to clarify that if he is 100% fine, that's only with regard to STDs.