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"Making Out" with a Non-Jewish Woman

What are the Halachic issues if I don't go "all the way" with a shiksah?

the.guard Wednesday, 26 March 2014

Hi, I am in need of guidance. Thanks to your site baruch Hashem my desire to do biah with goyish women has all but disappeared.

Unfortunately this goyish girl has come along to me. She insists no vaginal or anal (which according to halachah are definitely considered biah activities and a terrible sin). She is not doing this for me but for herself, because she wants to remain a virgin). However, I am finding it hard to convince myself to not go to her place for purposes of kissing, playing, and even oral. What issues am I facing halachically Can you help me out?

Response 1:

Hi, I understand how big of a test this is for you.

First it's important to understand how serious relationships with a non-Jewish person is. Please read this page.

The Torah says: "Lo Sikrivu Ligalos Erva" - which means "Do not get CLOSE to reveal nakedness (of forbidden relations)". The Torah does not use this language with any other aveirah, but when it comes to these things, once a person gets close (not only have they transgressed this biblical prohibition), there is no telling where it will go... And even if this time it doesn't go all the way, once a person allows himself to overstep one boundary, he is already at the very edge of the cliff and will end up transgressing much worse things later on.

Chazal say that the flesh of non-Jewish women is like a treif animal, i.e. like finding a dead carcass in the field. The Halacha is that one is forbidden to eat this carcass, and the Torah writes "To the dogs you shall throw it". A Jew has the great merit and mitzva of being Holy to G-d. These animalistic behaviors, especially with a non-Jew, tear us away from G-d, from holiness, and from our goals and purpose in life.

I would suggest that you use the TaPHSiC method to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Read more about how to do this over here. For example, I would suggest that on this page (the shavuah itself) you include as part of the fall descriptions: "oral sex, french kissing, touching of private parts, etc." with any woman other than your wife... then you will have to do the big Knas (e.g. give $1,000 to Tzedaka). If you make this kind of vow, then you will see that the test will become much easier for you because it will no longer be an "option" in you mind to do this. You will not have to keep battling with the thoughts like you are now.

Haba Letaher Mesayin lo!

Question, Part 2:

The "ervah" the Torah refers to is the close relatives and niddah as well. From where do we know that "ervah" applies to goyim as well? If it's from the chachamim, then you have two takanahs together A) no non-marital relationship with a goy, and B) the mitzvah of al tikruvu applies to goyim as well. This is a takana on top of another takana, and we don't hold by that.

Response 2:

First of all, the moment chazal made it assur, it automatically goes into the issur of "lo sikrivu". This is not a takana for a takana. Second, this is not a regular takanas chachaim. Chazal made relations with a non-Jewish woman insto NASHG"AZ - which stands for NIDDAH, SHIFCHA, GOYAH and ZONAH. They gave this prohibition the chumra of a deraysah on many levels.

A non-religious man once told the Brisker Rav that he doesn't believe in G-d because he has many questions. The Brisker Rav told him, "you don't have questions, you have answers". So my friend, if this question you ask is really an "answer" to why you want to permit yourself this grave sin, then I don't know if I can help you. However, I believe that the fact you are asking us this question, is because you genuinely want to stop these behaviors. You just feel you need to understand more how dangerous and sinful it is, so that you can convince the Yetzer Hara to leave you alone.

There's no question that any Posek you will ask will tell you that it is prohibited. Your question is really the "addiction" speaking, and that this is one of the tricks of the addiction. It's like the alcoholic who says "I was just trying beer, I wasn't drinking whiskey"...

As far as the prohibitions are concerned, anyone who is frum and has learned any Torah, should be aware of the severity of these sins. The Torah says "Thou shall not go astray after your hearts and after your eyes which lead you astray,". This applies even to images that arouses one's sexual inclination. The Rabbis state that anyone who purposefully arouses his sexual organ is to be banished (Niddah 13A). The Gemara there even goes as far to say "Better one's stomach should burst than he should touch the area of his bris (and possibly bring himself to an erection)". And another Gemara says "better to walk behind a lion than to walk behind a woman". And another Gemara: "whoever brings himself to an erection is destroying the world". This is not Mussar or Chassidus, this is regular Gemara. Chaza"l were fire about this! The Medrash says that anyone who is not careful with gazing at women will come to sin with them in the end. Regardless of what you say, this is also included in the prohibition of "Lo Sikrevu Legalos Erva, Ani Hashem Elokeichem". Even with idol worship, the Torah doesn't say not to come close! Only with sexual matters, the Torah exhorts us to stay far away from it. It is also interesting to note that the Torah uses the words "do not come close to reveal nakedness" and not "to sexual relations". This implies that "revealing nakedness" (i.e. even looking) is, on some level, as if one had already done the act.

So with all these sources, how can a frum person even ask such a question? The answer is in this week's Parsha. "Ki Hashochad... etc..." .. "For bribes make wise men blind, and twist the words of Tzadikim". The Yetzer Hara, who offers us bribes of false and fleeting pleasures, blinds us to the obvious truths and makes us think we have real "questions". But he is just disguising them as questions. Don't be fooled, and realize that these are not questions but really his "answers"! (R' Elchanan Wasserman used this very Pasuk in an essay he wrote, to explain how the multitudes of non-Jewish wise men and scientists from around the world, fail to see the obvious and glaring hand of Hashem in all of creation).

I know you will choose the right thing! (And the TaPHSiC method can help you stick to your decision).

The writer of the questions responds:

Thank you! You are right, this is more about convincing myself about the chumrah of the aveirah and the dire consequences. Now I feel more at peace with myself than when I first emailed you.