upanddown wrote on 12 May 2025 11:54:

Oish! The problem it's hard to give you chizzuk! What can you say to a guy who knows more than you'll probably ever know!

Though, maybe that's part of the problem...how is this adam gadol beating himself up?

I just find myself wondering are there other chalakim in Torah that you perhaps haven't explored that might be appealing? You said you've learnt a lot and presumably a lot of mussar seforim but what about fundamentals...in a way that appeals to you? And I wonder if could help scratch an itch that's waiting to be scratched...clearly you're in a lot of emotional pain but it feels like there's an intellectual thirst as well.

For myself I know things like R' Hirsch on Parshas Bereishis, The Hakdama to He'emek Davar, the Rambam's Hakdama to Peirush Hamishnayos, and Acharon acharaon Chaviv R' Avigdor Miller on Chovos Halevavos have I think given me a more balanced/stable view of Yiddishkeit...

This post is to clarify the relationship between AA and SA, and the books used in SA recovery.

Alcoholics Anonymous or AA was started in the 1930s by a group of alcoholics who discovered/created a working spiritual program to help alcoholics recover where no other treatment worked, This program is the 12-steps of recovery. Two of the most famous and influential early AAs were Bill W. (Wilson) and Dr. Bob S. (Smith). In 1935 they met in Akron, Ohio and started AA.
Bill W. wrote the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" in the year 1939 after a few years of sobriety. In recovery groups such as AA and SA it is known fondly by the term "The Big Book", from now on in this thread that is the term that will be used.

In the 1940s it became clear to Bill W. that the rapidly expanding AA needed rules and regulations to follow in order for the program to run smoothly or else chaos would prevail. As a result "The Twelve Traditions of AA" were adopted. (The word tradition sounds a little cultish it just means rules for AA to follow in fancy 1940s language.) Some of these traditions include Tradition 7- there are no fees to join AA, others include that there are no leaders in AA and all members are equal ect.

In 1952 Bill W. and Tom P. (Powers)  wrote the book "The Twelve Steps And Twelve Traditions", This book know by the slang "The 12&12", goes through the 12 Steps in a much more thorough and rigorous way than The Big Book. While the Big Book is the foundation of 12 Step recovery, The 12&12 shows that the steps include some real and heavy work and is the book used to help go through steps 4-12.

In the 1970s a man by the name of Roy K. started SA and based it fully upon the works of AA. Over the years that followed The book "Sexaholics Anonymous" was formed. The SA book is known in SA as "The White Book" due to the fact that it's a white book with no title it's cover.

In SA all three of the above books are used in recovery with The Big Book and The12&12 remaining the main books for actual step work. When we use those books we just mentally replace the word alcohol with lust.
There are other good books in SA that are very helpful in recovery but not main books used. Some of these are, "Step Into Action", "Recovery Continues", "The Real Connection" and others.

It's never too late. Sheba yipol tzadik.

I just read through this thread. Thank you @TimeToWin for sharing your story so vividly.

This post is like מים קרים על נפש צמאה.....

So happy to see you've had some improvement....

Been thinking a lot about you, brother....

Good morning, everyone.

I met someone from GYE in real life for the first time yesterday after being part of this community for over five years. Shout out to @chosemyshem.

My goal for today is to avoid time-wasting browsing. If I get to a point where I am not doing work, my goal is to get up from my seat and do something else. Come back later when I can focus.

Day Count: 5 Days
Cumulative Count: 1638 Days

Bh great start to week 2. no major urges, and places and times that where triggering and I never stood a chance before, at this moment there not affecting me thanks to accountability and a new mind set. Thank you Hashem. This is the first time in my life that I see the possibility of getting out of this mess. Hoping to only post good news bez"h! Thank you for listening

Been down in the dumps. New levels of being stuck in the mud. To be clear: I crossed boundaries and have been having נסיונות with non jewish woman (still very accessible). I have been totally put off Yiddishkeit in a way that I have never experienced. Recently I've started searching and looking for opportunities to be עובר on all איסורים. Not been learning, not praying, not saying Shema. About to eat non kosher food (started with חלב עכו''ם). Almost been מחלל שבת (done stuff בשינוי)... And obviously done some P&M. It is spiralling out of control.

Did some proper journaling yesterday and feeling a lot stronger. Starting to go uphill BH...

Day 3.

Thanks for listening brothers!

Next Page

From chapter 5 of AA (Alcoholics Anonymous), also found in Appendix 2 of the SA White Book

Chapter 5
HOW IT WORKS

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thorougly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps.

A few comments on To The Newcomer:

It's clear from the above passage (and from spending any time in SA) that SA is not only about sexual sobriety, but it's a sanity and serenity building tool. Sexual sobriety is the starting point in SA. Our problem isn't stopping- we've all stopped thousands of times, our problem is staying stopped and feeling calm and serene.

In SA we work on our sanity and serenity by cleaning up our defects of character, learning to let go and let G-d run our lives, stop trying to control our mind and lives, we stop fighting lust and learn to surrender it (later we will examine what the hell that means), we learn to accept life on life's terms, we fill up the spirital void inside of ouselves with a real and working connection with Hashem, we tart to get honest with others and ourselves, we learn how to manage our emotions, we learn to get out of our stupid and sick heads, we clean up the many messes we created in our acting out, and we learn how to give to honestly others.

After doing all of the above correctly we are able to stand tall and free, we feel sane, serene, and happy, and we know a new freedom we could otherwise never know.

Day 4 ב"ה

Dear brother R' TimeToWin, I really got inspired by your story, and by how far you've come, just keep on thriving and growing, wishing you all the best!

Day 3:

These have probably been the two most intense days I have ever had. Everything was perfect

just got back from JSS. What an inspiration! 
Had a great time with my wife, lots of bonding and healing.  

just registered for the international SA convention in Dallas later this summer.